[Spoilers] I’m irrevocably Unimpressed

[Avidria]

Maybe I need to touch up on the lore, if that is the case. This is what discussion is for!

As the saying goes, "it was doomed from the start!" I didn't know hydaelyn was summoned without sacrifice, either way both were flawed. Problem with the ascians is they are tempered and will serve in the end at Zodiark's will. Even if they succesfuly brought back the old Zodiark would just demand more and more sacrifice, and more and more calamities would just happen. However, I think hydaelyn tempers others in kind as well. I don't consider either good or evil, but I think they both need to go.

Actually, I think she was created with sacrifice - though it doesn't specify how many.

What Hythlodaeus said was "There were, however, those who disagreed with this plan. They argued that enough had been sacrificed to Zodiark - that this new world should belong to the lives newly born. These dissidents surrender their life energies in the creation of Hydaelyn, an incarnation of their opposing belief."

[SturmChurro]

My kingdom for ten characters. D:

Those lives were willing and ultimately needlessly sacrificed because the Ascians couldn't let go. Zodiark as explained in the story isn't all consuming, there's really nothing there that states he /needs/ constant sacrifices or to be kept in check. Just that his powers require sacrifice if called upon. While not outright stated it's pretty firmly hinted that the Amaurotines and the Star would likely have been fine had they not tried to bring back the dead. That act of planned genocide is the only reason Hydaelyn was brought in in the first place.

They weren't going to sacrifice their own people. It's very clearly stated they were going to kill OTHERS to bring back the dead. Those people were not willing and had no knowledge of them essentially being cultivated to die.

do emotes count?

Yes, they couldn't let go of their creation magicks so calamities just kept happening, and Zodiark required sacrifice's to quell them. None of what I said about them is justifying their actions either, just from their point of view.

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Actually, I think she was created with sacrifice - though it doesn't specify how many.

What Hythlodaeus said was "There were, however, those who disagreed with this plan. They argued that enough had been sacrificed to Zodiark - that this new world should belong to the lives newly born. These dissidents surrender their life energies in the creation of Hydaelyn, an incarnation of their opposing belief."

Okay, I thought I remembered that line. I was starting to doubt my memory on some of the story.

[Gwenorai]

Actually, I think she was created with sacrifice - though it doesn't specify how many.

What Hythlodaeus said was "There were, however, those who disagreed with this plan. They argued that enough had been sacrificed to Zodiark - that this new world should belong to the lives newly born. These dissidents surrender their life energies in the creation of Hydaelyn, an incarnation of their opposing belief."

Ah, there we go! Thank you for confirming.

That just adds more 'Oh no' to the whole thing. Was it the original souls of the 'scions' who did this? Was it the original soul of the WoL? We know that only one of the 14th left, so we can assume that they were the one who started it as they're the 'strongest' ones. So, we have those who are willing to die for those who are going to be unwillingly sacrificed. That's sad yet beautiful at the same time.

Also, have to keep in mind that these new souls were also more than likely considered 'children' to them... so they were willing to sacrifice children to bring back an ageless people who brought on their own demise, while these new souls had done nothing wrong. They're innocent.

[Avidria]

do emotes count?

Yes, they couldn't let go of their creation magicks so calamities just kept happening, and Zodiark required sacrifice's to quell them. None of what I said about them is justifying their actions either, just from their point of view.

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Okay, I thought I remembered that line. I was starting to doubt my memory on some of the story.

Yeah, I went back to look myself haha - was like hold on a second...

Let me see if I can get screenshots...

Edit just to clarify I didn't screenshot the entire conversation here ^^ just the parts about who was sacrificing what for who

[Enla]

-snip-

OUR EMOTES SHALL DROWN OUT THE SKY.

And ah! My bad I misread. Apologies about that! ^^

[Gwenorai]

Mfw ascians plans are confusing.

I'm actually really confused about how they thought this plan would work. So they created Zodiark. He saved them and became part of the star. They sacrificed themselves once to fill the star with life and then planned to fill it with vitality so they could sacrifice even more to bring back those who had died giving him life...

How would that work? How can he give the lives back when it would weaken him? How would feeding him more vitality work when he is the star at that point?

[Avidria]

Mfw ascians plans are confusing.

I'm actually really confused about how they thought this plan would work. So they created Zodiark. He saved them and became part of the star. They sacrificed themselves once to fill the star with life and then planned to fill it with vitality so they could sacrifice even more to bring back those who had died giving him life...

How would that work? How can he give the lives back when it would weaken him? How would feeding him more vitality work when he is the star at that point?

Yeah that confuses me a bit too...

...unless you interpret it to mean living creatures on the star - plants, animals, maybe even people. The way Hythlodaeus says that Hydaelyn's summoners believed the world should "belong to the lives newly born" is a little unsettling in its implications. It feels like he's saying the plan was to sacrifice those newly born lives - though maybe I'm just reading into it that way.

There's definitely more to this story, and definitely things we don't know. I honestly can't wait to see what else they might tell us about this.

[SturmChurro]

Yeah, I went back to look myself haha - was like hold on a second...

Let me see if I can get screenshots...

Edit just to clarify I didn't screenshot the entire conversation here ^^ just the parts about who was sacrificing what for who

words

Looks like I am wrong then, to an extent. The ascians wanted to sacrifice large amounts of people up to the point that they would sacrifice the new to bring back their old. Neither primal is good or evil, that is for sure. The ascians are definitly in the wrong even when it comes to their own people. I wouldn't call them good guys ever, I do understand how they view the world(s) as they are though. Any life that isn't one of their old is a worthy sacrifice to bring back their dead even if their souls were whole again. That means they are unmistakably the "bad guys". But again, from their point of view, the original sacrifices would have paved the way for tne "new" life to be "cultivated", so they should be sacrificed to bring back those who made the continuation of the world possible.

Mfw ascians plans are confusing.

I'm actually really confused about how they thought this plan would work. So they created Zodiark. He saved them and became part of the star. They sacrificed themselves once to fill the star with life and then planned to fill it with vitality so they could sacrifice even more to bring back those who had died giving him life...

How would that work? How can he give the lives back when it would weaken him? How would feeding him more vitality work when he is the star at that point?

He would be trading the original sacrificed souls for the new sacrificed souls.

[Gwenorai]

Yeah that confuses me a bit too...

...unless you interpret it to mean living creatures on the star - plants, animals, maybe even people. The way Hythlodaeus says that Hydaelyn's summoners believed the world should "belong to the lives newly born" is a little unsettling in its implications. It feels like he's saying the plan was to sacrifice those newly born lives - though maybe I'm just reading into it that way.

There's definitely more to this story, and definitely things we don't know. I honestly can't wait to see what else they might tell us about this.

I like characters, big juicy characters...

But even then the living creatures on the star would be a part of him. When folks die now they return to Hydaelyn in the lifestream. So if, he was the 'daddy' crystal at that time then everything would be tied to him thy the lifestream. Those lives are already entwined with him - their aether is his aether. Unless it meant that by killing a portion of the life their aether would return to Zodiark, he would 'supposedly' use it to bring back those dead ascians... and thus weaken him further because each ascian has immense aether and can constantly create. It just seems so very confusing!

I look forward to see how this went about and how they could even think it was okay to even consider. I want to hear Zodiark and hear his 'thoughts' on this.

[SturmChurro]

I like characters, big juicy characters...

But even then the living creatures on the star would be a part of him. When folks die now they return to Hydaelyn in the lifestream. So if, he was the 'daddy' crystal at that time then everything would be tied to him thy the lifestream. Those lives are already entwined with him - their aether is his aether. Unless it meant that by killing a portion of the life their aether would return to Zodiark, he would 'supposedly' use it to bring back those dead ascians... and thus weaken him further because each ascian has immense aether and can constantly create. It just seems so very confusing!

I look forward to see how this went about and how they could even think it was okay to even consider. I want to hear Zodiark and hear his 'thoughts' on this.

All these emotions

For sure. I hope we get to have an actual conversation with Zodiark! I feel like Zenos is going to try to steal, or utilize his power somehow so he can duel you. That's at least what I got from the very end from zenos's dialogue.