Revelations from SHADOWBRINGERS

[CaesarCV]

...

Apologies if I'm a tiny bit snippy here, but you've accidentally stepped on a Pet Peeve of mine, mainly trying to respond to broad thematic points with non-thematic hyper specific in universe lore. It's working on a fundamentally different level, and it's something I tire of in online discourse.

But that aside, I do have some responses...

There are a few things I feel like I should respond to here, albeit with a more generalized outlook.
First off, I do agree on the point with Creation Magic. We have no proof that it actually is the cause of the calamity, although it certainly made things a lot worse as the despair grew and people's literal worst nightmares came to life. The Creation Magic is a logical choice since most of the earlier calamities are caused by human Hubris in some way, so people gravitate towards it. That being said...

It really doesn't matter.

It doesn't. People act like it's this grand mystery, when frankly I don't think it is. I don't think that's our endgame or anything like that. The focus of the plot wasn't on the mystery of the calamity itself, but on the Ascians and their effect afterwards. None of the Scions even seem to express interest or necessity in finding out what it was, so I simply doubt that it's all that important. What does matter is what happened afterwards. I could be wrong, but what's important to the story is the Ascian/Zodiark Hydelyn conflict, not just what happened in ancient times.

More pressingly though, you're giving me a lot of "Zodiark might have not hurt everyone" style responses that frankly sound more like fanfiction to make the Ascians into good guys than things we actually know. For everyone, here's a quick timeline of events.

1. The Calamity begins outside of Amaurot. Nobody knows the cause, but it progresses quickly. The Amaurotine try to figure out what to do.

2. Desperate times call for desperate measures. The Amaurotine High Council conducts the plan to summon Zodiark. Half of the population is sacrificed to power Zodiark. The first primal saves the world.

3. The World is saved, but is a nearly lifeless wreck. Another half of the population is sacrificed to Zodiark. Life is restored to the planet, new life begins to grow.

4. The Amaroutine high council prepares to sacrifice the life of the planet to resurrect the Amaroutine who died to summon Zodiark. There is a great division however, with people concerned for the new life on the planet. For lack of a better term, this group will be called the Hydelyn Sect.

5. The Hydelyn Sect summons a primal of their own in an attempt to control/defeat Zodiark and protect the new life on the planet. The Ascians oppose them to try and restore Amaurot at all costs. Hydelyn wins out in the end, but the world is split into 14 Shards.

6. The Modern Ascian Order is formed from the Unsundered Ascians who wish to restore Amaurot through rejoining the world. Presumably they will continue on with the 'sacrifice life on the source' plan to resurrect the old Amaroutine.

I will note however, we are missing parts of the story. Namely, we know next to nothing about the side that summoned Hydelyn other than their goal of protecting and shepherding the new life on the planet. I fully expect to hear their side of the story in the patches at some point, probably through Ryne since she's the new Oracle of Light.

And more importantly, how does that change my point at all? One side is selfishly doing bad things to restore themselves and only themselves and the other is trying to protect everyone. One side is still trying to desperately resurrect the past, and the other is entrusting themselves to their future descendants. One side is the one that the story designates as in the right, the other the story designates as in the wrong.

Is this really that hard to get? Am I taking crazy pills?

[Tharne]

One side is the one that the story designates as in the right, the other the story designates as in the wrong.

I saw the story depicting both sides to be right (the only wrong side I saw was the one summoning Hydaelyn). Just that we are the one that wins.

[CaesarCV]

I saw the story depicting both sides to be right (the only wrong side I saw was the one summoning Hydaelyn). Just that we are the one that wins.

Alright. If you ignore the music, the way characters are framed, the character designs, the subtext associated in a game where the good guys usually win, who we play as, and a whole bunch of other stuff, you're totally right. Both sides are the same and one just wins.

[Daralii]

Alright. If you ignore the music, the way characters are framed, the character designs, the subtext associated in a game where the good guys usually win, and a whole bunch of other stuff, you're totally right. Both sides are the same and one just wins.

Are they the same? Hydaelyn's summoning is kind of an enigma, since a primal summoned with such a small fraction of the population(~12% if we're being generous and assuming it was an even divide) should be no match for one summoned with 50% and then fed half of the remaining population, but she was strong enough to overpower Zodiark, imprison him, shatter reality, and supplant him.

It's also an extremely minor thing, but I kind of want to know how Elidibus, Hades, and Lahabrea managed to escape being sundered unlike the other 11 members of the Convocation.

[CaesarCV]

Sorry, facetiousness and sarcasm don't come across as well on the internet. Obviously both sides aren't the same. Obviously the game's narrative gets to choose who it thinks is right and wrong through all of those things I mentioned. The viewer can disagree (death of the author and all of that) but I was just making a point ha ha.

[Tharne]

Alright. If you ignore the music, the way characters are framed, the character designs, the subtext associated in a game where the good guys usually win, who we play as, and a whole bunch of other stuff, you're totally right. Both sides are the same and one just wins.

Two sides being right in what they are doing doesn't equate to them being the same though.
But if you think you have it all figured it out, more power to you...

[CaesarCV]

Is it impossible to comprehend that a game might display an opinion on its story, settings, and characters? That it might demonstrate these through the tools it has available to it? That you might be able to figure that out? That a side can be portrayed sympathetically but still shown to be as wrong in the end? Shadowbringers does this with Emet-Selch, Vauthry, and even Ran'jit.

[Tharne]

Is it impossible to comprehend that a game might display an opinion on its story, settings, and characters? That it might demonstrate these through the tools it has available to it? That you might be able to figure that out? That a side can be portrayed sympathetically but still shown to be as wrong in the end? Shadowbringers does this with Emet-Selch, Vauthry, and even Ran'jit.

Is it impossible to think that you might be wrong about the opinion being displayed ?

[CaesarCV]

Is it impossible to think that you might be wrong about the opinion being displayed ?

What a sick burn! I am astounded by your creativity and incredible logic!

Pointless mockery aside, I'm trying to make a point that there's a lot more than the literal in game events you have to look at to determine the plot's ideas about something.

But I think I've worn out my welcome a little bit. Thanks for the fun conversation, and I apologize for getting a bit heated.

[Tharne]

What a sick burn! I am astounded by your creativity and incredible logic!

Pointless mockery aside, I'm trying to make a point that there's a lot more than the literal in game events you have to look at to determine the plot's ideas about something.

But I think I've worn out my welcome a little bit. Thanks for the fun conversation, and I apologize for getting a bit heated.

We already had this narrative with Nidhogg, we feel for him, but we know him to be wrong. Why would they repeat an angle like that ? "That dude is wrong...but wait here's some background info ! Guess what ? He's still wrong !" This is so overplayed everywhere.

And same as with Nidhogg that's what I felt first, it's after thinking about all we learned that I thought he was right.

No need to apologize.