SHB BLM is the peak of this game's job design

[CecMiller]

I think BLM is really well designed and flows really nicely. That AOE rotaion of Freeze -> Filler -> (F3 Optional) -> Flare -> Flare -> Repeat is so smooth. I can only hope the other jobs receive similar levels of polish and smoothness. They definately got BLM right this time at expansion start. 4.0 was marred by issues and was thankfully quickly fixed, but no doubt that BLM has started strong this expansion and other jobs hopefully will get the same level of polish eventually.

The worst thing about this job? Getting synced below level 72.

[Hasrat]

No it isn't, might as well unbind that spell.

Well, unless you're doing roulettes that sync down.

[Seraphor]

Well, unless you're doing roulettes that sync down.

Yeah that's what bothers me the most about BLM really, all the different rotations for different level ranges, and now we have a new 72-80 one. It's the best one yet, but it's a shame it wasn't retrofitted earlier in their growth.

[Hasrat]

It might be a little awkward, certainly messes with muscle memory, but, I kinda like it. It's a simple way to separate the good players from the less good, seeing which ones recognize they've crossed a threshold. And, personally, I always thought it was a nice feeling teaching fresh BLMs in Stone Vigil how their rotation flows better and they need Transpose less now that they'd gotten to the B3/F3 point.

[Acidblood]

Well, unless you're doing roulettes that sync down.

Fire II does so little damage (Holy hits harder), costs so much MP (4 casts at best even with UI), and has such a long cast time (3s) that short of a large well grouped pack I feel like I'd be better off using single target... and that's assuming the Tank and Healer haven't killed everything before I can even get a cast off :/

It might be a little awkward, certainly messes with muscle memory, but, I kinda like it. It's a simple way to separate the good players from the less good, seeing which ones recognize they've crossed a threshold. And, personally, I always thought it was a nice feeling teaching fresh BLMs in Stone Vigil how their rotation flows better and they need Transpose less now that they'd gotten to the B3/F3 point.

If nothing else, it makes you appreciate just how much better BLM has gotten with each expansion... it's almost like one of Developers actually plays the class (sorry MNK).

[Archwizard]

Alright kids, hot take time:

We should be able to use Flare to transition to AF in AoE phases. The change to Freeze allows us to skip B3 in AoE, but even still Flare consumes Umbral Hearts if cast from UI phase, forcing us to continue using F3, which is jarring in AoE (particularly as the only single-target ability in that rotation).

Aspect Mastery should take priority over the Umbral Heart. I think this design would be largely uncontroversial, since it's a design decision that literally only affects Flare, and the fact that it doesn't already is misleading and non-intuitive.

The problem then, is that Flare deals 260 potency damage to the initial target versus F3's 240. If Flare were to come at no cost out of UI, it would have to be inferior to F3 for single-target damage so we don't replace F3 outside Firestarter.
(Cast time isn't really a consideration given UI3 reduces it to below the GCD anyway.)

Thus this leaves two options:

1) Flare takes a small hit in initial target damage (to 230 or less) so its single-target value remains lower than a Fire 3. However, even at a mere 30 potency drop on one target, the act of casting 3 Flares means losing ~130 potency on the main target. An easy counter to this would then be to adjust the peripheral damage value, say, dropping only 30% on additional targets instead of 40, which would actually be a small potency buff on those peripheral targets and overall smooth out our AoE distribution.

2) Fire 3 takes a small buff (to 270 or higher) so its ST value is higher than Flare's. This also affects the value of Firestarter (particularly with the Sharpcast upgrade), and would mean taking ~75 raw potency from elsewhere in the single-target rotation (to which I'm sure the obvious answer is "UI phase", but 80 potency is a lot for any ice spell to lose). I'm sure we can agree that BLM's present output is not wanting for the significant rebalancing that would entail.

Thoughts?

[PyurBlue]

I don't see the problem with F3, but you could just apply element swapping properties to F2 and have no need to modify Flare at all.

[Archwizard]

you could just apply element swapping properties to F2 and have no need to modify Flare at all.

Also a possibility. I simply find that Flare having the ability to put us in AF3 already, the much smaller difference between it and F3, and the existence of Aspect Mastery, in addition to F2 being available at a substantially lower level, makes modifying Flare alone to require less of a leap/general buff.

I would also argue that the act of being able to get out one additional Flare, even weakened by UI3 (bearing in mind, so is F3), would probably still be a buff to AoE even with a small deduction on the initial target.

Plus I'm still an advocate for F2 to just upgrade into Flare at level 50. Same with B2 and Freeze.

[Videra]

what is umbral soul for btw?

You gain a stack of ice/hearts when you use it, it's for transitions/between mob pulls

[PyurBlue]

Also a possibility. I simply find that Flare having the ability to put us in AF3 already, the much smaller difference between it and F3, and the existence of Aspect Mastery, in addition to F2 being available at a substantially lower level, makes modifying Flare alone to require less of a leap/general buff.

I was thinking along the lines of including F2 into Aspect Mastery or something like that, it wouldn't change how F2 works at lower levels.

I would also argue that the act of being able to get out one additional Flare, even weakened by UI3 (bearing in mind, so is F3), would probably still be a buff to AoE even with a small deduction on the initial target.

I decided to just play with numbers. It turns out that Flare in UI can already beat F3.

F3 (UI) > Flare > Flare > Freeze is 200.6 PPS on 4 enemies, 441.2 on 10 enemies.

Flare (UI) > Flare > Freeze is 203.8 PPS on 4, 471.6 on 10

Interestingly F2 can still be a damage gain.

Flare (UI) > F2 > Flare > Freeze is 473.7 PPS on 10 enemies. At least if my math is right.

Plus I'm still an advocate for F2 to just upgrade into Flare at level 50. Same with B2 and Freeze.

While this might work above level 68, between that level and 50 it would mean the BLM AoE fire rotation is a single flare followed by waiting for MP. At least F2 casts give you a chance to proc thunder to get around the MP tick issue.