The DPS is not the Healer

[CazzT]

Because the DPS get a say in who can remain in the dungeon if they are of like mind.

Please show me a DPS that is going to initiate a kick because the tank is doing big pulls. There isn't one. But I do like how you completely ignored the part where I talk about me and a healer handling the pull without DPS even being there to contribute.

There's no reason to even push it that far.

Then why are you bringing it up? More to the point, it would never even get that far anyway, because DPS wouldn't complain about bigger pulls.

The reason for this is we want a smooth run. Smooth runs are fast. And if everyone is good with big pulls, we pull them. If not, we size it down. I never understood why everyone needs to take extremist positions. Everyone devolves into two camps. Pull big or go home, or always take it nice and slow. How about this novel idea? Work as a team.

I adjust pulls based on two factors. 1 - Can the Healer handle keeping me alive? 2 - How well do I know the trash, and does the trash have any special mechanics that need to be handled? Neither of those require input from DPS. The DPS could be dead and it just be me the Healer and the pull would simply die slower.

Let's break this down simply. The tank and healer are half the group. The DPS are the other half. Two individuals do not have the privilege to tell two other players how the group is going to go. Sorry, not how it works. 3/4 can tell the group how it's going to go, and if you're 1/4, and that's not palatable, then you leave.

As I pointed out above, show me even a single DPS that will initiate a kick because of bigger pulls. They don't exist. And you also ignored the fact that I have done big pulls where the DPS died and contributed nothing to pull and it still died. Why should a role that has so little impact have any input? That's like asking the janitor his opinion on a multi-million dollar company merger.

But you as a healer or tank, thinking you're some special snowflake who can dictate how the dungeon is paced, regardless of what the rest of the group thinks? That's the literal definition of entitled.

You can stop with the projection. DPS is one of the least important roles in regards to trash pulls. Your role on bosses is important. You want to feel special in matters where your role doesn't.

[Kaethra]

Please show me a DPS that is going to initiate a kick because the tank is doing big pulls.

If you were on my dataserver I'd show you. But currently due to forum TOS I cannot post names. We'll just say I know a few. As others said, it only takes 2 to kick. So the DPS are very much relevant to the discussion as they comprise of at least two people. You say you can do a dungeon without them, but I doubt that is true if you're not in the dungeon anymore to begin with.

As I said, there's no reason to even push it that far.

[CazzT]

If you were on my dataserver I'd show you. But currently due to forum TOS I cannot post names. We'll just say I know a few. As others said, it only takes 2 to kick. So the DPS are very much relevant to the discussion as they comprise of at least two people. You say you can do a dungeon without them, but I doubt that is true if you're not in the dungeon anymore to begin with.

As I said, there's no reason to even push it that far.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. I do live by the motto that "if you think you've seen the dumbest thing ever, someone will scream 'challenge accepted!'"... And yet I'm still surprised that a DPS would be mad when a Tank does big pulls. /facepalm

I fully agree there's no reason to push it that far. And, in the interest of fairness, I feel I should point out that I do listen to the input of DPS on matters like this. It's just that DPS input on pull size really isn't important since their contribution to the success of the pull is, by comparison, trivial to the Tank and Healer. I usually argue/debate from the position of "here's the reality of it". I rarely walk that line myself.

[Eli85]

As I pointed out above, show me even a single DPS that will initiate a kick because of bigger pulls. They don't exist. And you also ignored the fact that I have done big pulls where the DPS died and contributed nothing to pull and it still died. Why should a role that has so little impact have any input? That's like asking the janitor his opinion on a multi-million dollar company merger.

You can stop with the projection. DPS is one of the least important roles in regards to trash pulls. Your role on bosses is important. You want to feel special in matters where your role doesn't.

Everything you wrote here just screams entitlement. Do I, as a DPS player, want to feel special in matters where my role doesn't? No. I'd say the same thing if I was tanking or healing. How the group is going to proceed, the pacing, is a role agnostic consideration. The fact that you happened to queue up as a healer or tank does not permit you to tell 3/4 of the group what to do.