Shadowbringers broke healing

[Ayrie]

I remember the same strain when I went through a leveled through Stormblood: healing was a chore because... I felt much weaker compared to the current than coming out of Heavensward.

Part of it was true, as the ilvl of the dungeon starts catching up or surpassing your own ilvl, things get a bit trickier as tanks get crushed more and the heals do less % compared to the incoming damage. After the first or second round of experts, though, there is usually gear that vastly outpaces the ilvl of the dungeons though, so normally this pain is only during the leveling cycle... especially as the tanks and DPS struggle with the same ilvl vs dungeon level the healer does.

I think the biggest part of it is knowledge.

I ran through on Dancer, learned all the fights from a DPS perspective... basically which moves were AoE, which were targeted, where to go, etc.

Then I started to run through as Dark Knight. I knew the tank busters from Dancer, which allowed me to help the healer by preparing for it with Blackest Night, Reprisal, or some % cooldown. Which helped a TON. I ate a few raw, and they dropped my HP down to sub 50% pretty regularly, but with Blackest Night + Reprisal the damage barely moved my HP bar. It also trained me, as a DRK at least, how to actively mitigate pools of damage on big pulls.

Finally, I swung with WHM. It felt strong, it still feels strong, and my ilvl was pretty sad (like low 360s) going into ShB. I think the only missing piece to my kit at that time was learning how to use Divine Benison. Once I learned that, with my accumulated knowledge from the other roles, things just got a lot easier and freed me up to doing a lot of damage.

I guess the tl/dr of this is: gear is great, but knowing the cadence of the script is better. Healing proactively instead of reactively makes things feel more in control, probably because they are

[Yuyuka3]

The point is in the quote...

He indirectly said he cannot dps that much. I don't know what I do differently, but I got little issues to dps for most of the pull. Just like Urianger and Alphinaud, and especially when using trusts since they tend to do single pack pulls. Is he comparing apple and oranges? No clue, sounds a bit like it tbh.

[Inelastic]

My question is why is it that healing is harder for us than Alphinaud and Urinager. I swear I see them DPSing quite often.

Because Thancred is a beast!

[Eloah]

He indirectly said he cannot dps that much. I don't know what I do differently, but I got little issues to dps for most of the pull. Just like Urianger and Alphinaud, and especially when using trusts since they tend to do single pack pulls. Is he comparing apple and oranges? No clue, sounds a bit like it tbh.

Wow, you seem, umm agreeable.

If you paid attention to my statement, you would understand that I'm able to DPS just fine. Because, in order for me to notice how Alphinaud and Urianger are healing, I can't be the healer in a trust party, I either have to be a tank or DPS; and since it shows I have SCH at 80, it's clear I went in as a SMN.

Another point, and this is in relation to a comment I notice you said in reply to another post. You seem to have leveled WHM, which is the strongest healer at the moment. AST and SCH are "broken" at the moment. AST cards are meh, and SCHs interconnecting mechanisms arent connecting as they were. At the moment WHMs have no "glaring" issues, besides the main one that's been their from the start, but is only considered bad from a "meta" perspective. AST and SCH look good on paper and can do the job, but not the way they use to. And this is especially true on SCH, people seem to forget the faerie is there to compansate for what the other healers can do that we can't. I'm not saying nerfing her is inherently bad, but it's getting to the point of why do we even have her?

[Ghishlain]

I tried to make this point as well when this was brought up before and somehow it angered a lot of healers.

Healing isn't broken. It just requires better planning and play than before. And you can still DPS just fine other than huge pulls (which honestly, we shouldn't be able to ignore the tank on massive pulls anyway).

I think it's important to note context about healing power - something the OP failed to articulate well because they only talked about the raw number of our cures. My numbers indicate that raw values of healing power hasn't changed and has remained consistent with the curve that S-E has planned out - which directly contradicts the OP's point.

What has changed is the fact that our healing power relative to the HP totals we're dealing with has been altered, thus indirectly nerfing our healing power.

In Momo's AST impression video, he commented that Benediction on a 1HP tank in 5.0 is worth approximately 4,000 potency worth of healing in a single ability - or 3,000 potency on a tank that has 25% remaining HP left if you do the linear math attached to it.*1 For context, I calculated Benediction being approximately 1,882 potency on a tank that only had 25% HP remaining at the beginning of Stormblood.*2 This means Benediction is working 60% harder. It doesn't meant we, as healers, are working 60% harder as well to maintain the tank's health, but we are definitely working harder just based on what I've been seen and been doing in my various DRs since ShB release.

With that being said, I wouldn't say that healing in ShB is broken either. Just because we have to work harder doesn't mean the healing is broken - it just means the developers wants us to use more healing and we'll have to adapt around that mindset. Broken would imply the healing is impossible to manage and it's not.



*1 - Momo's AST Impression Video Time Stamped for Benediction Comment - Also a WHM at i418 c/w i430 weapon has 450 potency = 13,554HP. (13,554HP/450 potency) on a 110,000HP tank = 3,652 potency for 1HP tank

*2 - From my spreadsheet notes in 4.0: "Assumes 75% HP restored on 46K HP Tank ~i310 (no Susano Weapon) - baseline 450 Potency = 8,250 HP (i310 w/ Susano Weapon) [no party bonus]"

[Yuyuka3]

Wow, you seem, umm agreeable.

If you paid attention to my statement, you would understand that I'm able to DPS just fine. Because, in order for me to notice how Alphinaud and Urianger are healing, I can't be the healer in a trust party, I either have to be a tank or DPS; and since it shows I have SCH at 80, it's clear I went in as a SMN.

Another point, and this is in relation to a comment I notice you said in reply to another post. You seem to have leveled WHM, which is the strongest healer at the moment. AST and SCH are "broken" at the moment. AST cards are meh, and SCHs interconnecting mechanisms arent connecting as they were. At the moment WHMs have no "glaring" issues, besides the main one that's been their from the start, but is only considered bad from a "meta" perspective. AST and SCH look good on paper and can do the job, but not the way they use to. And this is especially true on SCH, people seem to forget the faerie is there to compansate for what the other healers can do that we can't. I'm not saying nerfing her is inherently bad, but it's getting to the point of why do we even have her?

I got that when you run with those two you are not healing, don't worry. However, pug tanks tend to pull quite a lot, and at times more than they can bite off especially during leveling; it was the exact same in Stormblood, when tanks thought they are still immortal even without CDs and had the healers pay the price for it. So comparing Urianger and Alphinaud healing to you healing is comparing apples and oranges, especially if you are going SMN and not tank were you would have more control over pulls to compare (as SMN, you shouldn't be able to pull as many groups then as tank since they would most likely slaughter you halfway through).

Also, yes I have leveled WHM. And? It's been my main job since 2.0 beta, of course I level that first; I did so even when the job was shit. Doesn't mean I don't level anything else... which I do. Just reached level 74 as a SCH, so I know what it feels like to level as one in ShB. Btw, your complaints seem more that SCH is different, not that it's bad. Since it most definitely isn't. I've seen some pretty amazing stuff from SCHs at level 80, both in terms of shielding as well as recovering a group. You act as if your healing is far beneath WHM; it's not from what I've seen. Quite the opposite, actually, SCH pulls higher healing numbers than WHM in addition to having incredible shields. SCH also still deals pretty good DPS and buffs crit in addition to that. The lower healing numbers also don't just apply to you, even if you want to believe it. Normal Medica or Rapture only cure 9.5k HP, on people with over 70k HP. Cure III does 17k,with the downside of needing the party to stack. That's not exactly much more than anyone else. We got the same problem with healing feeling low as you do, yet you seem to believe WHM can somehow, miraculously restore an entire party back to full in a single GCD all by themselves. We do have some powerful healing tools; but believe it or not, so do you.

Oh, and I don't seem agreeable? Well, maybe I'm just fed up with the whining and hypocrisy here.

[Tharnor]

As scholar my only healing issues has been bad groups. Even then I can still keep fresh tanks up when they imitate Leeroy if they actually use their cooldowns effectively and use proper placement. But those are few and far between and deaths happen.

[Eloah]

Also, yes I have leveled WHM. And? It's been my main job since 2.0 beta, of course I level that first; I did so even when the job was shit. Doesn't mean I don't level anything else... which I do. Just reached level 74 as a SCH, so I know what it feels like to level as one in ShB. Btw, your complaints seem more that SCH is different, not that it's bad. Since it most definitely isn't. I've seen some pretty amazing stuff from SCHs at level 80, both in terms of shielding as well as recovering a group. You act as if your healing is far beneath WHM; it's not from what I've seen. Quite the opposite, actually, SCH pulls higher healing numbers than WHM in addition to having incredible shields. SCH also still deals pretty good DPS and buffs crit in addition to that. The lower healing numbers also don't just apply to you, even if you want to believe it. Normal Medica or Rapture only cure 9.5k HP, on people with over 70k HP. Cure III does 17k,with the downside of needing the party to stack. That's not exactly much more than anyone else. We got the same problem with healing feeling low as you do, yet you seem to believe WHM can somehow, miraculously restore an entire party back to full in a single GCD all by themselves. We do have some powerful healing tools; but believe it or not, so do you.

Oh, and I don't seem agreeable? Well, maybe I'm just fed up with the whining and hypocrisy here.

I can't even think of how to respond to this, without it appearing as though I am "whinning". The only thing I'll say is, I said WHM is the strongest healer right now, not that it's a god send given to us by SE. But WHM currently has the strongest heals and best resource management. Not saying the other healers don't have strong heals, nor that their resources are "unmanagable" but it's not as easy as it once was.

One thing I will add, that people might not even know or might forget, is that besides Physick, SCH doesn't have any spammable heals. While heal spamming isn't great, there are moments when it might be needed. Like when the tank has a death wish.

Plus I think this whole issue stems from the Meta, that I hope is changing. If I need to use a GCD heal to keep you alive, then I'm doing it. I don't wanna hear I could use an oGCD instead and use the GCD for DPS. I like dpsing as a healer, but my job is to heal the idiots who dont move out of all the AoEs. How I do that is my choice.

[Cyrocco]

I dunno I feel pretty okay on all of the healers.

[Gula]

I'm calling opinions here.

I get thrown off with my timing with skills having different durations, but WHM DPS is still fun. Everyone at 100%, no one standing in puddles, aight. Holy/Holy/Holy/Holy/Holy/oh my god I still have so much mp/Holy