If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[HyoMinPark]

Someone didn't even bother reading before making a toxic reply.

If you did bother to read, then you would have understood that the OP isn't dpsing because they are HEALING. You know, their JOB? They aren't being idle.

Unless they have tanks that stand in AOEs and refuse to use CDs, all healers still find instances to DPS even in the ShB dungeons. During boss fights, especially. However, like I said to someone else, this assumption probably came about because the "standing around waiting for people to take damage and dealing 0 DPS because I'm a healer not a damage dealer" playstyle tends to be the preferred playstyle of those who make threads with this theme.

[CorbinDallas]

Unless they have tanks that stand in AOEs and refuse to use CDs, all healers still find instances to DPS even in the ShB dungeons. During boss fights, especially. However, like I said to someone else, this assumption probably came about because the "standing around waiting for people to take damage and dealing 0 DPS because I'm a healer not a damage dealer" playstyle tends to be the preferred playstyle of those who make threads with this theme.

At least as a WHM, you can't not DPS anymore now that Afflatus Misery exists. But who am I kidding, they won't use it because those free and instant cast Afflatus Heals are to be saved for emergencies, right?

[Nims]

I still can't believe healers don't dps. I've mained healer here for awhile and not dpsing is boring, people don't need to be at 100% health at all times unless a tank buster is coming up.

When I'm on my rdm I'll be sure to never use raise or heal a dying healer because you know....I'm dps and if I wanted to heal I'd play a healer.

[Avidria]

Unless they have tanks that stand in AOEs and refuse to use CDs, all healers still find instances to DPS even in the ShB dungeons. During boss fights, especially. However, like I said to someone else, this assumption probably came about because the "standing around waiting for people to take damage and dealing 0 DPS because I'm a healer not a damage dealer" playstyle tends to be the preferred playstyle of those who make threads with this theme.

In this case, I'd say Kaedan is right - because OP explicitly said they contribute to DPS when they're able to, but focus more on healing and can't always fit DPS in. It didn't sound like they were "idling" to me at all.

Never a good idea to be rude based on an assumption.

[Erendis]

So healer should dps, huh? How about dps? Should they dps too? In one of the recent Acadaemia runs none of the dps aoed on big pulls, I was the only one aoeing, and my mp is limited... I'd love to say this rarely happens, unfortunately I can't.

[Kazrah]

To the OP, whenever a DPS whines about you not doing enough dps, just tell them to stop being bad. If they keep whining at you about it, vote kick that special snowflake for harassment.

Given how dumb tanks are and how lazy I've seen some DPS players in pugs can be, I've learned to never expect healers to do damage. Yes, it's nice and things die faster if the healer gets bored enough, but it should never be perceived as a requirement. Players need to learn that, especially now that so much damage output has been shifted from healers onto DPS and tanks.

[HyoMinPark]

So healer should dps, huh? How about dps? Should they dps too? In one of the recent Acadaemia runs none of the dps aoed on big pulls, I was the only one aoeing, and my mp is limited... I'd love to say this rarely happens, unfortunately I can't.

At this point, there’s really no excuse to AOE. I call out DPS who don’t AOE and I always have. This doesn’t change the argument that healers should include DPS in their arsenal when they aren’t having to heal.

Players need to learn that, especially now that so much damage output has been shifted from healers onto DPS and tanks.

I mean, they gave WHM a 900 potency (with fall off) DPS spell. That doesn’t really sound like they’re trying to shift damage away from it. Holy spam is still fairly strong as well, and Assize still has a 45-second cooldown. Which continues to make it a good damage button. WHM is dealing more damage in the EX fights than tanks at some rankings.

[TwistedTea]

Because high-end content is where balance will always be the most important. Balancing should never be around dungeons (though WHM is crushing AST there at the moment as well).

If you have WHM dealing 7,000 in personal damage (not even including what they bring to the table healing-wise—Temperance is REALLY good), they will always be the better choice over a Diurnal AST that can only deal 4,000 personal damage and bring maybe 1,000 in raid damage (and who does not have the sustain that WHM has in terms of healing or MP). AST would have a collective 5,000 in rDPS—meaning your party would lose ~2,000 just from bringing them. Which means you are purposely gimping your party by playing a job that is inherently weaker when you could bring a WHM and be more useful.

If AST could bring about 2,500~3,000 in rDPS, that would give them a collective 6,500~7,000 rDPS, bringing them in line with WHM. At that point, it would come to two things: playstyle preference and whether or not people are doing padded runs. Speedkills could possibly go either way, since the most important factor there is kill time, not padding players (or even necessarily buffs—BLM/SMN were in the Alphascape speedkill meta despite MCH being in the log meta); and both will be dealing relatively the same amount of damage to push for that fast kill.

That said, the Website That Shall Not Be Named is being updated to display rDPS and filter out padding (I’m pretty sure that this is in part due to the addition of DNC). Which is honestly how it should have been since Balance was introduced.


With regards to skill when it comes to play, more complex should not mean that damage is automatically lower. Just because WHM has a simple rotation and AST a “complex” card mechanic (it’s really not that complex, especially now) doesn’t mean AST has to deal less damage than WHM. RDM has frequently been cited as one of the easiest jobs to play—it dealt moderate amounts of damage back in Stormblood. Conversely, playing SMN could be relatively complex in terms of rotation, but they were dealing some of the highest damage in Stormblood.

To clarify, my perspective is that if a job requires more skill to play,eg. AST/SCH should do more DPS/rDPS assuming they are being played properly.

It's ok, if the harder to play jobs, are rewarded with more DPS/rDPS etc for proper play.

If people are not happy that WHM is not doing enough DPS/rDPS as a healer, they should improve their skills and play AST/SCH instead.

Note, I'm not saying WHM should be significantly weaker than AST/SCH but as a WHM, I wouldn't be too fussed if an AST/SCH is putting out ~500-1000 DPS/rDPS more.

This 'balancing' of healers from my perspective is misguided and has led us to 5.0 AST/SCH.

[ksuyen]

Healer can DPS... AFTER healing. If you can't DPS because all your time spending in healing, by all mean, so be it. I think a dead DPS or tank is worse than one less healer DPS.

[Kaethra]

This is the way I look at it. Tanks and DPS are using abilities as the GCD comes up as mechanics permit.

What makes healing different? I've seen MMOs allow for healers to do support and heals with every GCD (such as Everquest 2, where Clerics need to precast their reactives, Druids their HoTs, and Shaman their Wards), do we wish to see content and abilities altered so you can have that here? What that means is missing a beat means someone dies. Do you want that sort of responsibility?

Here you're not constantly healing and buffing, but instead get the ability to do damage instead. It is an unacceptable criteria to have to do less work than the other roles. Only healing meets that unacceptable criteria.