If you thought the healer DPS debate would change with the change...

[TwistedTea]

As to the WHM DPS potency, yea they need a nerf, a big one too.

Please no.

Raise AST/SCH DPS rather than nerf WHM.

If anything, I find WHM has too many redundant heals and needs more DPS abilities.

I strongly suspect this is because none of the devs or FFXIV popular YouTubers main a healer.

Even with 5.0, I don't think encounter design calls for more healing once we are all geared up.

Also,something I've never quite understood:

Why do classes have to be balanced at the min-max level in a mostly PVE game?

For example, as a WHM, I don't care if a AST/SCH can put out more DPS/rDPS if they require more skill to play.

[Seoulstar]

Next time I go in a dungeon, I'll pull wall to walk and proceed to not deal any damage. My job is to tank after all isn't it? Not deal damage, that's not my job.

If something gets aggro on something else, I will take it back and proceed to sit there.

It's the DPS job to deal damage, not mine. I'm just here to make sure things are aggro on me.

See how ridiculous this sounds?

It's the childish mentality such as this that truly made me step away from the support of the healer dpsing crowd. You guys go about this in the most childish way that makes me truly glad such thoughts is actually within the minority of this community. With that being said. I hope the devs someday put an end to this little debate for good. It seriously brings out the absolute worst of this community.

[EpicOverlord85]

It's the childish mentality such as this that truly made me step away from the support of the healer dpsing crowd. You guys go about this in the most childish way that makes me truly glad such thoughts is actually within the minority of this community. With that being said. I hope the devs someday put an end to this little debate for good. It seriously brings out the absolute worst of this community.

How is this mentality any more childish than people who want to sit around and wait for damage to happen? It’s quite literally what the healers want to do, but the tank equivalent. Also when had the DPS healers ever been the minority of the community?

[HyoMinPark]

Nerfs aint the answer thats a fact.

Miste didn't say anything about nerfs being the answer. She was contesting your assertion that WHM didn't demand for AST or SCH to be nerfed while they were on the bench. There were plenty of WHMs on this very forum demanding that the other two suffer. One of which made several threads in the Healer Roles subforum during the months leading up to the media tour and a couple afterward.

I'm curious what part of OP's post made you think they were idling in combat.

Because that tends to be the playstyle of people who make threads with this theme.

I guess this thread is pretty silly. As a healer, I simply won't DPS. Mostly because of how aggressive other jobs are about it.

Case in point.

Honestly, you’re being petty at this point and a hinderance to your party. Way to rise above, I guess.

Also,something I've never quite understood:

Why do classes have to be balanced at the min-max level in a mostly PVE game?

For example, as a WHM, I don't care if a AST/SCH can put out more DPS/rDPS if they require more skill to play.

Because high-end content is where balance will always be the most important. Balancing should never be around dungeons (though WHM is crushing AST there at the moment as well).

If you have WHM dealing 7,000 in personal damage (not even including what they bring to the table healing-wise—Temperance is REALLY good), they will always be the better choice over a Diurnal AST that can only deal 4,000 personal damage and bring maybe 1,000 in raid damage (and who does not have the sustain that WHM has in terms of healing or MP). AST would have a collective 5,000 in rDPS—meaning your party would lose ~2,000 just from bringing them. Which means you are purposely gimping your party by playing a job that is inherently weaker when you could bring a WHM and be more useful.

If AST could bring about 2,500~3,000 in rDPS, that would give them a collective 6,500~7,000 rDPS, bringing them in line with WHM. At that point, it would come to two things: playstyle preference and whether or not people are doing padded runs. Speedkills could possibly go either way, since the most important factor there is kill time, not padding players (or even necessarily buffs—BLM/SMN were in the Alphascape speedkill meta despite MCH being in the log meta); and both will be dealing relatively the same amount of damage to push for that fast kill.

That said, the Website That Shall Not Be Named is being updated to display rDPS and filter out padding (I’m pretty sure that this is in part due to the addition of DNC). Which is honestly how it should have been since Balance was introduced.


With regards to skill when it comes to play, more complex should not mean that damage is automatically lower. Just because WHM has a simple rotation and AST a “complex” card mechanic (it’s really not that complex, especially now) doesn’t mean AST has to deal less damage than WHM. RDM has frequently been cited as one of the easiest jobs to play—it dealt moderate amounts of damage back in Stormblood. Conversely, playing SMN could be relatively complex in terms of rotation, but they were dealing some of the highest damage in Stormblood.

[Demetri_Delethorn]

I guess this thread is pretty silly. As a healer, I simply won't DPS. Mostly because of how aggressive other jobs are about it.

[Hash_Browns]

God this thread lol

No wonder nobody wants to be a healer

As someone who was a healer main up until now (since I moved over to WAR) - we think like this as well. ABC is the rule for a reason. Don't idle. If you have bad MP management, that's on you. Being able to AFk for 10-15 seconds before applying 1 heal isn't an option. If healers do that they should be kicked on sight.

I understand we have new tanks using GNB, new dungeons to learn, and new boss mechanics - but that doesn't mean you should just idle because the tank might need a heal in 10 seconds.

[Conando]

Prioritize healing all you can, once things feel comfortable weave in the DPS. The leveling experience this expac was a little painful because of “green dps”.

[Banriikku]

As a Astro Dpsing ? Okay..... so some ppl will kick me for not beeing whm? Sorry but such players are just Blacklist-Buddys for me then ^^ They dont have a clue about the changes on the healer then and even a good healer will be a grey par?er. Only whm will bomb everything away. I will dps when i'm not healing AND my mana is high enough. In a lvl 71 to 80 dungeon i will most of the time heal and buff the group. If we talking about old stuff or ex stuff .... yiss i will dps most of the time. Depends on the tank, the content and the dd. So whats the point? I'm healer not a dps - i will help but my toolkit is mainly for healing and buffing (astro) not dpsing. Blame Se for that - not us healers.

[EpicOverlord85]

As a Astro Dpsing ? Okay..... so some ppl will kick me for not beeing whm? Sorry but such players are just Blacklist-Buddys for me then ^^ They dont have a clue about the changes on the healer then and even a good healer will be a grey par?er. Only whm will bomb everything away. I will dps when i'm not healing AND my mana is high enough. In a lvl 71 to 80 dungeon i will most of the time heal and buff the group. If we talking about old stuff or ex stuff .... yiss i will dps most of the time. Depends on the tank, the content and the dd. So whats the point? I'm healer not a dps - i will help but my toolkit is mainly for healing and buffing (astro) not dpsing. Blame Se for that - not us healers.

There’s a difference between healing when it’s needed then DPSing when you can and standing around waiting for someone to take damage. The latter is what a good chunk of us are talking about not being ok.

[Kaedan]

TLDR: Shockingly, we still expect players not to idle in combat.

Someone didn't even bother reading before making a toxic reply.

If you did bother to read, then you would have understood that the OP isn't dpsing because they are HEALING. You know, their JOB? They aren't being idle.