Tank Damage

[Doozer]

That's what i mean by nerf, Every other job got an increase in DMG. we just stayed the same as we did in SB

Everyone else getting buffed isn't a nerf. If you're standing halfway up a flight of stairs and everyone walks up to you or higher, that doesn't meant you went any further down the stairs. Understand?

[Lanze]

Those numbers are only what is required to kill your respective dummy and has never been exactly representative of what the class is actually capable of.

3rd expansion, 3rd SSS and people are still making this mistake.

Oh i'm not making that mistake, it's just we are not allowed to talk about a certain subject here on the forums. So i resorted to mention that picture instead

[Exoxo]

Oh i'm not making that mistake, it's just we are not allowed to talk about a certain subject here on the forums. So i resorted to mention that picture instead

I’m just saying, if we rewind back to HW, all 3 healers were above all 3 tanks in SSS. So not really giving much value to show tanks damage being low.

[gumas]

That's what i mean by nerf, Every other job got an increase in DMG. we just stayed the same as we did in SB

its not a nerf, everyone get dmg buff of sort while tank are still the same more or less

[MaraD_]

Im one who doesnt care if tanks do more or less dps. but just to correct a misunderstanding about the nerf to their dps...

Everyone else getting buffed isn't a nerf. If you're standing halfway up a flight of stairs and everyone walks up to you or higher, that doesn't meant you went any further down the stairs. Understand?

You mixed up which things you were talking about in your example.

When talking about "nerfs" its in comparison to something. Either what it was prior, or what it is compared to another thing within the same category.
In this case, they made 2 different comparisons.
So if they compare themselves to DPS, then your example should be;
"If you're 4 steps below the people in front of you, and someone wouldnt let u take steps forward, and forced the person(s) in front of you to take 2 more steps forward, then you're now 6 steps behind them."
The comparison isnt how far you are to the top of the stairway, but how far you ware from the other person(s) on the stairway.

DPS doesnt have a "top" max, so the only thing to compare to is to the DPS of another class.

If there is anything considered remotely similar to your example, is if you said they added more stairs to the stairway, and bumped other people up further along the stairway.
(Bosses HP is now higher than before, so the damage you deal by % has gone DOWN)

The same logic applies to measuring "movement" in space. A stationary object with no momentum, is equal to an object in motion, if compared to an object in motion.

its not a nerf, everyone get dmg buff of sort while tank are still the same more or less

Damage by percentage has been lowered. That is a nerf.

Think of inflation.
You have 1 dollars worth of currency.
The currency doubles from the government tomorrow.
Your currency is now worth half as much.

Thats indirectly taking value from your currency, and applying it elsewhere.
This would be pointless, other than for the factor the government gets to spend it, and any debt people had, just lost value, and the debt holders lost a % of currency needed to pay of the current value of lifes costs.

You can argue, no, there is no loss of money, money was ADDED. But in reality, money was lost by some, and gained by others.
obviously in this case, value of DPS is based on the % of a targets HP that can be removed.
They dont actually need a fixed value, as a fight can have completely different enrage timers.
So the value of DPS is on a per boss fight basis, which cant be directly measured.
Instead, you have to go with a sort of estimate, based on prior fights.

[Lanze]

I will still consider it a nerf to tanks. With new gear and item level increase + 10 levels. We should be doing more than we did at 70 (Just like other jobs). But we aren't, I don't know how you can say it isn't. If you actually used 3rd party tools you would know.

[MaraD_]

I will still consider it a nerf to tanks. With new gear and item level increase + 10 levels. We should be doing more than we did at 70 (Just like other jobs). But we aren't, I don't know how you can say it isn't. If you actually used 3rd party tools you would know.

It is a nerf like you said.
Dont measure the value of DPS by a flat number.
Instead see how much dmg they do in total in a fight, then cross multiply it, so you see what that damage is as a percentage.
If the percentage is lower than the average per boss encounter in the prior expansion, then its a nerf. (And yes, their percentage has been lowered.)

[MerlinCross]

All jobs lost slashing/piercing/blunt. But they got more buffs /potency which further boosted them quite high. I remember when people leaked the new fell cleave from warrior which is at 920 potency. people started saying it was OP. But the skill itself doesn't hit much more than a fell cleave in SB with trick attack.

We still have trick attack though, and the AST damage buff is easier to get ahold off(Not to mention stacks from what I understand). I think the new Fell Cleave will actually hit harder when raid/progress kicks in.

[ArianeEwah]

All jobs lost slashing/piercing/blunt. But they got more buffs /potency which further boosted them quite high. I remember when people leaked the new fell cleave from warrior which is at 920 potency. people started saying it was OP. But the skill itself doesn't hit much more than a fell cleave in SB with trick attack.

I just have to comment on this because 'twas the same when SB hit.

We get most of our damage from gear. For level 70, iLvl 400/405 is the highest possible, secondary stats are basicly maxed, each one giving ~5-7% damage increase. At level 80, iLvl 430 is pretty much the starting base, each secondary stat gives less damage increase than on level 70.
That means we don't hit harder in particular, except for new harder hitting skills/abilities.

Yet our DPS is actually higher than in SB.
I bet your example is from Omega (S) raid with trick attack, infusion, echo, Devotion, old Hypercharge etc etc.
And that's were the problem lies. We lost many raid buffs (such as Hypercharge), your SB FC hit was with echo (+15/20%) and probably with infusion.

I've done this multiple times myself and hit with 32-35k FC during IR, when ALL raid buffs, echo, and infusion were applied.
Now I do 36-37k Inner Chaos solo without potions, echo or raid buffs.

Quick maths, calculating old FC true potency during raid with echo *beep beep* = roughly 970 pot... vs IC 1012 pot (both with Storm's Eye)... I don't see the issue here... seems fine to me.

Also keep in mind SE said they changed damage calculation, so everything still might be off.

b@Topic:
I couldn't care less whether our DPS got gutted by a little or not.
I'm just so happy that they made our accessories just as valueable as DPS/healer ones. The first time in years we don't have to meld STR or VIT instead of secondary stats for max DPS increase. We don't have to deal with damage inflation either like we did in HW when they took VIT into attack power calculation. No more unnecessary gil-wasting, overmelding projects for max DPS - (excluding world first runners)

Nevertheless I don't think we got gutted. Alphascape V4S SSS dummy needed a WAR DPS of 4.8-4.9k DPS, roughly 5k with a STR melee in a party. Now the highest tank DPS required for Titania SSS dummy is 6.7k (PLD). That is a still huge increase in damage, just a fairly smaller increase vs DPS jobs.

WHM seems like an exception at all of this, having 1k higher DPS than SCH, even leaving tanks behind. SE will probably change this in near future (for the sake of the other 2 healer jobs).

[YokeM]

Im one who doesnt care if tanks do more or less dps. but just to correct a misunderstanding about the nerf to their dps...

You mixed up which things you were talking about in your example.
...

This is an old post, but I still want to thank you. Finally someone got it. I made a similar post on reddit and was down voted into oblivion. A lot of people don't understand, that you have to see damage in relation to something else.

Buffing everyone around you, but keeping you the same is effectively a nerf. SE tried something similar at SB launch were they locked tanks into VIT gear. There was a huge uproar back then. This time they have been smarter about it.