New drk is too much fun!

[ReiMakoto]

People are complaining about the new DRK, because they took one of the highest apm classes in the game that was, imo, really fun to optimimise and micro manage, and turned it into braindead dump mana every min whilst using worse inner release thats slower. Warrior already exists, we didn't need warrior with edgy paintjob.

[RyuDragnier]

People are complaining about the new DRK, because they took one of the highest apm classes in the game that was, imo, really fun to optimimise and micro manage, and turned it into braindead dump mana every min whilst using worse inner release thats slower. Warrior already exists, we didn't need warrior with edgy paintjob.

DRK in SB was really annoying and clunky due to DA spam. I originally played the class in HW and had to give it up in SB because of the loss of its original great identity of a balancing act. Balance your MP, balance your cooldowns, balance your damage, balance your aggro...it had the complexity and micromanaging of a SCH in tank form. SB took away the synergy of its moves and stripped its kit of several of the abilities that made us who we are (outside of Reprisal, did any tank need Low Blow or Anticipation!?), made it practically braindead in the MP department, and forced Dark Arts spam for offensive moves to the point where it could give carpal tunnel (when originally it was used more defensively and tactically). We go from there to now, where it's fluid, there's actual synergy within the entire kit, and is far less annoying to pull out the full potential of. DRK has gotten an identity again along with a bit of tactical complexity it was missing in SB, and IMO is far better for it. Sadly it's not at HW's level, but DRK is actually fun again.

[ReiMakoto]

DRK in SB was really annoying and clunky due to DA spam. I originally played the class in HW and had to give it up in SB because of the loss of its original great identity of a balancing act. Balance your MP, balance your cooldowns, balance your damage, balance your aggro...it had the complexity and micromanaging of a SCH in tank form. SB took away the synergy of its moves and stripped its kit of several of the abilities that made us who we are (outside of Reprisal, did any tank need Low Blow or Anticipation!?), made it practically braindead in the MP department, and forced Dark Arts spam for offensive moves to the point where it could give carpal tunnel (when originally it was used more defensively and tactically). We go from there to now, where it's fluid, there's actual synergy within the entire kit, and is far less annoying to pull out the full potential of. DRK has gotten an identity again along with a bit of tactical complexity it was missing in SB, and IMO is far better for it. Sadly it's not at HW's level, but DRK is actually fun again.

I played on DRK in HW, then when SB intially came out I played Warrior, then switched back to DRK when 4.2 came out because I detested inner release. I'm firmly in the camp of I liked Dark Arts, not as much as HW mind you, but still found the mechanic enjoyable, and if you were into micro optimising a fight to get high percentiles it was very fun. Knowing when to tbn to get an extra bloodspiller to prep downtime, trying to make the most of misaligned raid buffs by choosing to mana dump, there was a lot of nuiance you could get out of it if you knew what you were doing. I'm firmly in the I like high APM crowd which is why im not so happy, I think they could have redigned the kit to keep the speed but lose the clunk. Also new Delerium can just go to hell, I hated inner release on WAR, I don't need it on DRK too.

[Nedkel]

People are complaining about the new DRK, because they took one of the highest apm classes in the game that was, imo, really fun to optimimise and micro manage, and turned it into braindead dump mana every min whilst using worse inner release thats slower. Warrior already exists, we didn't need warrior with edgy paintjob.

It wasnt rewarding also SB DRK would look like a little boy in comparison to the new War, PLD or even a gunbreaker.
They had to redo him, if they leave him at as he was in SB then it would be a tremendous PR failure in shadowbringers and i dont have to write down why.
People liking old DRK are minority, it was least played tank class for a reason.
You maybe forgot about the bad sides of SB DRK.
Playing that DRK took lot of effort for less rewards than other tanks, it would be even worse especially today. Also DA spam was limiting the design, you couldnt add anymore cool oGCD into that, since DA animation lock was terrible and really hard to double weave with higher ping, you already had 3 oGCD that would boost your damage with DA, but also 2 others on top of it which were essential to use and another 2 which were a waste of DPS if not used in time.
It also had a terrible balance problems, it was super different fighting single target and multiple targets, you would be flooding with MP when fighting a group of enemies and be lacking MP when fighting single target, same with healing, do i really need to tell why it was bad and why SE decided to make it the way it is now? It would be impossible to give SB DRK new stuff because of it, it would give different outcomes in dungeons and raids.
It wasnt all that fast fighting single target on DRK, blood generation was way lower than now too and you used your signature skills way less than today, it was 1-2-3 combo + DA all night and day, there wasnt anything exciting about it.
I played on and off DRK in stormblood, i liked it before i tried to play other tanks.

DRK is better now, he is not as clunky and counter-intuitive to play, and could do a ton of damage when played right. Thats why so many people are enjoying it today.

[shao32]

You know, DRK archive world first in both ultimates bcs it was fun, ppl how raid with him and didn't have a raid team that force him to switch play it BCS was fun, the low pick rate of DRK was mostly by ppl locking it out from PF and raid recruiting groups when the job was in a bad position not BCS the job wasn't fun.

And DRK didn't have balance problems, the MP generation and usage was well calculated, you only have problems if you are bad at management resources, for no say SB DRK have the best aoe gameplay of all tanks and expansions hands down.

Btw dark arts and new oGCD are not incompatible, if you make it cost less mp that DA and add more potency you have a nice alternative to spend your MP, in fact more oGCD with fair MP cost it's what DRK need it to reduce the DA spam.

[Nedkel]

You know, DRK archive world first in both ultimates bcs it was fun, ppl how raid with him and didn't have a raid team that force him to switch play it BCS was fun, the low pick rate of DRK was mostly by ppl locking it out from PF and raid recruiting groups when the job was in a bad position not BCS the job wasn't fun.

And DRK didn't have balance problems, the MP generation and usage was well calculated, you only have problems if you are bad at management resources, for no say SB DRK have the best aoe gameplay of all tanks and expansions hands down.

Btw dark arts and new oGCD are not incompatible, if you make it cost less mp that DA and add more potency you have a nice alternative to spend your MP, in fact more oGCD with fair MP cost it's what DRK need it to reduce the DA spam.

World first i did heard about it, but you know who was the second tank in there? DRK didnt played alone in that savage raid.

Fun is relative.
A ton of people dont enjoy a job or class if its not performing well enough, and this is fact, majority of people do not feel like to play a weak class no matter their design. It could be enjoyable or as SB DRK has been called, as a unnecessary fiddling for worse results comparing to other tanks.

MP generation wasnt well calculated, you would overcap it in a moment when fighting multiple enemies, and it was opposite when fighting singe target if you wanted to generate any kind of burst.
AOE gameplay being the best is your personal opinion, i am not going to argue with it but i remind you of the skills being used against multiple targets.
SB DRK had rarely used dark passenger doing 140 potency, abyssal drain which costed mana and dealt only 120 potency damage, and quietus, all these could have been enchanted with DA.
Current DRK has unleash>stalwart which generate both mana and blood and deals a lot more dmg, quietus which is used more frequently due to aoe combo being able to generate blood, delirium quietus combo, abyssal drain as oGCD and flood of shadow to use MP on.
Current DRK is way more complex in AOE department, this is a fact, it is no longer a abyssal spam + quietus somewhere in the middle when blood weapon and salted earth is up, current DRK also deals way more potency in AOE than SB DRK, this alone does contribute into the feeling of the class, since you hit harder you feel it better.
Numbers does matter, new DRK has them on their side.

[shao32]

PLD both cases.

Fun is relative as the perception of what is a good design or not, inner release is not a good design as my perspective but for you meanby is so we are in the same ground, you perception of what is a good design is not superior to mine.

I agree a underperforming job isn't going to be played much bcs obvious reasons but that's independent of his design, it's a question about numbers.

It was well calculated, first of all DRK have a more sustained performance, isn't was meant to do any kind of heavy burst window at all so you manage you MP all the time to keep the same pace all the time not burn everything and run out of MP aka no TBN.

Current aoe rotation generate so little resources you can't spam flood, the blood generation give you so little Quietus uses and the skill is not impactful at all and you spend the rest of the time doing 1-2. old rotation gives you more sustained resources generation, using TBN to generate blood to use Quietus to generate mana and use all that mana with DA-AD give you a lot of dps and self heals something this new version can't do, SB gives you dps strong self heals and good sustain so you don't fall sleep spamming 1-2, and dark passenger was a direct DPS gain with 2 and more targets since the begining, the DA potency to all targets was insane.

So I don't consider 1-2 + Quietus/oGCD when they care to recast or have resources necessary to being used a hour later is more complex and sinergice better that old rotation since the last one give you always constant resources for free TBN and this one no, and I doubt this one dealt more dps apart of the low resource generation you need to be carry by you healer more that before.

[ReiMakoto]

Current DRK is way more complex in AOE department, this is a fact, it is no longer a abyssal spam + quietus somewhere in the middle when blood weapon and salted earth is up, current DRK also deals way more potency in AOE than SB DRK, this alone does contribute into the feeling of the class, since you hit harder you feel it better.
Numbers does matter, new DRK has them on their side.

I would have a lit more to say but im on a train and fun is relative is a very concise way of putting it, but youre wrong in general about it being badly designed, all of its kit had a nice purpose that you could use and optimise.

However im gonna stop you right here on this aoe statement because its blatantly false, the flow of tbn -> quietus -> dark passenger ->Quietus -> drain -> tbn ect was way more complex and rewarding than current drk, and could make you an unstoppable monster with health drain shielding and damage constantly. Now its unleash, stalwart flood/tbn when you have mana and quietus spam jn delrium, its way way less complex, not to mention a longer cd lower damage salted earth means holding mobs in it is less necessary.

[Lersayil]

I would have a lit more to say but im on a train and fun is relative is a very concise way of putting it, but youre wrong in general about it being badly designed, all of its kit had a nice purpose that you could use and optimise.

However im gonna stop you right here on this aoe statement because its blatantly false, the flow of tbn -> quietus -> dark passenger ->Quietus -> drain -> tbn ect was way more complex and rewarding than current drk, and could make you an unstoppable monster with health drain shielding and damage constantly. Now its unleash, stalwart flood/tbn when you have mana and quietus spam jn delrium, its way way less complex, not to mention a longer cd lower damage salted earth means holding mobs in it is less necessary.

Not sure how its blatantly false...? It possibly had a better, more strict rhythm to it, but it was in no way more complex than what we have now. Also it was THE best aoe rotation between the tanks (by complexity, strength AND sustain), making it the de-facto king of tank aoe. The only thing we've really lost is the sustain with AD now on a horridly long cd.

CDs are longer but currently for aoe you juggle and manage mp and blood, rotating: Unleash - Stalwart Soul, Flood of Shadows, AD, Salted, Quietus, Living Shadow (not sure about if this is a gain over Quietus in a aoe situation). You also pop Delirium, TBN and Blood Weapon on cd.

That is a respectable number of skills for an aoe rotation. I liked both aoe rotations, but wouldn't say one is oh so much better than the other (aside from the fact that 4.0 DRK was a self healing aoe monster that should not have survived into this current aoe tank meta).

[MerlinCross]

Numbers does matter, new DRK has them on their side.

And yet it doesn't feel fun to play for me. Numbers aren't the only thing that absolutely matter otherwise I'd expect everyone to be playing BLM and BRD from what I understand of DPS talk.

Shadowbringers might have the better numbers but it feels stiff and jarring to play for me. This is a skip for using the class for me. Heck, I under-preformed more than likely on the last 2 versions of DRK but I liked those 2 versions. I don't like how this one feels to play. Stormblood felt odd but it also felt like a step up. Heavensward was to use Dark Arts on 1-2 skills, so Stormblood gave us more things to use it on and let us use it even more/faster. Now, we're expected to... not spam and not use Dark Arts at all? It's just gone? That feels weird.

Yes I know it's not gone but it's locked behind breaking TBN now and really that's a dumb idea to me.

DRK now feels off. Is it good or better than before? I don't know but I know I probably won't play it to find out because it just feels too off and clunky. Which is funny because that's what everyone complaining about Dark Arts said.