SHB itself is fantastic, but I'm not at all convinced on many of the combat changes

[Millybonk]

Well, do you know how to test, pick and prune data that's relevant to finding out what's optimal, what's worthless and etc because you would be a big help in finding that out because all I see anywhere I look is personal anecdote and no data.

Wrong approach.

The first thing would be to question SQ:

• Why did tanks lose their 2 stances as it couldn't have been challenging to swap them, and instead got a disgraceful "enmity-toggle" in return, which in all fairness could be removed also and the additional enmity could be baked into a trait or something
• Why did WHM lose Aero II?
• Why did AST lose a lot of class identity, as now all your 6 buff cards do the exact same thing?
• Why does GNB play like a mix between all the other tanks, offering nothing exciting in terms of mechanics/skills/combos etc?
• What's the reasoning behind all tanks losing almost every cross-class tank CD without gaining anything in return?
• Why has healing been turned into "Turret healer" instead of "You have the choice if you want to heal or dps"?
  
  I could go on for hours.

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

Wrong approach.

The first thing would be to question SQ:

• Why did tanks lose their 2 stances as it couldn't have been challenging to swap them, and instead got a disgraceful "enmity-toggle" in return, which in all fairness could be removed also and the additional enmity could be baked into a trait or something: The eminity toggle is for OT. So that way the OT doesnt generate as much threat as the MT and pull off of them. Also said eminity combo just attributed to button bloat, if you had to use your emity combo after pull? Something was wrong/
• Why did WHM lose Aero II? Because they went with a more holy thematic. If I had to bet we will see its return with another nature based healer/
• Why did AST lose a lot of class identity, as now all your 6 buff cards do the exact same thing?BEcause Astros complained that pulling cards that weren't balance was disappointing.
• Why does GNB play like a mix between all the other tanks, offering nothing exciting in terms of mechanics/skills/combos etc? As someone who swapped main to Gunbreaker and enjoying it, you are playing it wrong probably. IT has more utility than the other tanks, and has a more sustained damage than a warrior and I find continuation fun to use.
• What's the reasoning behind all tanks losing almost every cross-class tank CD without gaining anything in return? Job based cooldowns.
• Why has healing been turned into "Turret healer" instead of "You have the choice if you want to heal or dps"? Because people would give shit to healers for either dpsing or healing. So because said community was toxic they moved healers to a more pure healing role.
  
  I could go on for hours.

I answered all of your questions in the quote. Hope that helps, enjoy Shadowbringers!

[ScarboroughFairy]

Yeah when i was setting up my tanks i was shocked that they all pretty much had identical keybinds, and the exact same defensives

they homogenized the tanks way too much i think

Tank main here leveling both DRK and GNB through Shadowbringers. Was a WAR main and only dabbled with PLD in the previous expansion. I'm just not seeing what you're seeing given that the Tanks were pretty "homogenized" in that they all had, generally, the same fundamental setup from the previous expansion. All they did was prune skills that literally no one used across each of the classes--save for a few exceptions.

All a Tank is supposed to do is hold aggro and mitigate damage, which they are able because they all have access to the roughly the same mitigation. However, the mitigation tools that align themselves with their class' identity has their own gimmicks. Aside from that, I can say with absolute clarity that DRK does not play like WAR and GNB does not play like either of those two.

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

Tank main here leveling both DRK and GNB through Shadowbringers. Was a WAR main and only dabbled with PLD in the previous expansion. I'm just not seeing what you're seeing given that the Tanks were pretty "homogenized" in that they all had, generally, the same fundamental setup from the previous expansion. All they did was prune skills that literally no one used across each of the classes--save for a few exceptions.

All a Tank is supposed to do is hold aggro and mitigate damage, which they are able because they all have access to the roughly the same mitigation. However, the mitigation tools that align themselves with their class' identity has their own gimmicks. Aside from that, I can say with absolute clarity that DRK does not play like WAR and GNB does not play like either of those two.

Its just people adding to the echo chambers that haven't played the Jobs. GNB is different from any tank I've ever played in any MMo.

[Fhaerron]

Wrong approach.

The first thing would be to question SQ:

• Why did tanks lose their 2 stances as it couldn't have been challenging to swap them, and instead got a disgraceful "enmity-toggle" in return, which in all fairness could be removed also and the additional enmity could be baked into a trait or something

The reason for the enmity on/off toggle instead of turning it into a trait is so that you won't risk ripping hate from the other tank when you don't want too.
For tank swap you turn on enmity buff, you voke and the other tank shirks you and toggles off his enmity buff.

[Lemuel81]

I think a lot of us have seen this from a mile away. Balancing everything out and trying to make everyone happy is a tedious job. But just like we've seen it in other MMOS like WoW, Jobs will lose their identity, combat will become more and more simpler, they will continue to axe away.

[Mistyregions]

One raid and two primals is already 1/3 of the expansion pack. Surely you can't expect us to "wait and see" that long.

Since you have some high expectations I am assured you will help by running the numbers? Adding and removing max materia on every single class and every single job, at your own expense and time?

Right?

[Mistyregions]

I am loving the changes to MCH. Since it's my main, for once, I feel the rotation makes sense and I am dealing powerhouse amounts of damage. Reassemble + Drill for the win! BOOM baby!

There are 2 of us!

[sexythaumaturge]

Can someone please explain to me whats up with this "homogenisation" of tanks which i cant really get a grip on?

How they are homogenised and how it is any different from what we had in Stormblood? Because for me it all looks like a complaining for a sake of complaining.
How did DRK lost in balance department if its the second highest (after broken PLD that will be nerfed sooner or later) DPS tank right now?
Also OP is not liking the magic only deffensive cooldown, and asks to buff it in order to put it on pair with other deffensives, isnt it what is called homogenisation? Why would he want DRK to have same stuff as other tanks? Quite the irony.
I fail to realise how power slash was any part of DRK identity, it was almost never used by this job.
Someone need to make a list for each tank of abilities from 5.0 and the previous patch and compare and then play all of them to lvl 80 in order to make such brave statements of all tanks playing the same.
War still rely on heavy damage IR windows, he could heal himself and other with nascent flash he didnt had this before, also he has a exclusive to him and additional infuriate mechanic in which he has 2 charges to use for highest damage skills, he exceeds in the personal deffensivess.
PLD got highest damage from all tanks, a really deadly magic damage combo and cool gauge based burst damage, still has his upper hand in supportive abilities in comparison to rest of tanks.
DRK plays totaly different from the rest by managing 2 resources, with 2 damage dealing windows and strong "dot" damage, his shield is a tank buster eating wall which none of tanks has.
If anything SE did, it was packing more iconic skills into these jobs in place of skills that were just weak and didnt had any large impact on these jobs gemplay (sole survive, shield swipe, old delirium, enmity combo, unchained etc).

They aren't homogenized. Dark Knight feels FAR better now while still retaining what was unique about it. I don't know what people are complaining about.