Shadowbringers Monk is grueling and torturous in Dungeons - A regression to 2.0 monk

[MaraD_]

Unfortunately your criticism will be... how to phrase it...

SE has a tenancy to hear the complaint, and COMPLETELY take it the wrong way.
So, I guess "Mistranslated" is the word?

Anyways, Yoshi was afraid ppl wouldnt be happy with grease lightning 4, and if you guys say "the current style is bad" no amount of further explanation will get through.
The only thing that will make it to Devs/Yoshi is "They didnt like it" and they will remove GL4, and make MNK slower.

By the time enough people complain, and enough failures, they will just make a new job, like MCH and DRK, and call it a day.

[Rockette]

Unfortunately your criticism will be... how to phrase it...

SE has a tenancy to hear the complaint, and COMPLETELY take it the wrong way.
So, I guess "Mistranslated" is the word?

Anyways, Yoshi was afraid ppl wouldnt be happy with grease lightning 4, and if you guys say "the current style is bad" no amount of further explanation will get through.
The only thing that will make it to Devs/Yoshi is "They didnt like it" and they will remove GL4, and make MNK slower.

By the time enough people complain, and enough failures, they will just make a new job, like MCH and DRK, and call it a day.

Err... no one in this thread, including me, is complaining about GL4. GL4 is fine, it's great. The only complaint I'd have is the lack of new animation aura to symbolise it.

It's the playability of managing stacks in casual content that they added a quality of life fix for in Stormblood, then removed.

I wrote it in the title :/

[Physic]

I don't understand it. We finally got our armor crush, / 20 second huton refresh, enochian button, blood of the dragon refresh. Then they took it away and left in the part everyone universally hated. I understand they didn't want Tornado kick rotation to be a thing so why not fix tornado kick into a skill that doesn't directly contrast with the rest of Monk's Greased Lightning based kit.

tornado kick was fun, building stacks back quickly was fun, sometimes fitting in two tornadoes was fun. High crit rates and more chakra was fun using riddle then going ogc happy was fun. Where are the synergies now? How often do you get to do some cool combos? well, level 80 I suppose maybe it all comes together somehow, I just don't see it tho.

[echo78]

Err... no one in this thread, including me, is complaining about GL4. GL4 is fine, it's great. The only complaint I'd have is the lack of new animation aura to symbolise it.

It's the playability of managing stacks in casual content that they added a quality of life fix for in Stormblood, then removed.

I wrote it in the title :/

He knows that. He is saying the devs will misinterpret any negative monk feedback now as "GL4 is bad" instead of actually listening to us about all the things wrong with monk (and its not GL4).

Like, they literally said SB monk wasn't fun to play and that the slowdown on riddle of fire was jarring... But guess what still exists? The slowdown on riddle of fire. Despite the devs agreeing it feels bad. That's how steep of an uphill climb we have right now with monk. Even when they recognize what a major problem with monk is they don't do anything to fix it.

[Physic]

He knows that. He is saying the devs will misinterpret any negative monk feedback now as "GL4 is bad" instead of actually listening to us about all the things wrong with monk (and its not GL4).

Like, they literally said SB monk wasn't fun to play and that the slowdown on riddle of fire was jarring... But guess what still exists? The slowdown on riddle of fire. Despite the devs agreeing it feels bad. That's how steep of an uphill climb we have right now with monk. Even when they recognize what a major problem with monk is they don't do anything to fix it.

SB monk was more fun to play than this. slowdown on riddle was worth the dmg, and using ogcds to fill the space allowed for nice damage combos. Not a perfect feeling after no ogcds, but now, it's more noticeable with less off globals.

Anyhow, this is basically the ARR monk style, so if that's your thing, you will probably enjoy this version later.

[Rockette]

He knows that. He is saying the devs will misinterpret any negative monk feedback now as "GL4 is bad" instead of actually listening to us about all the things wrong with monk (and its not GL4).

Like, they literally said SB monk wasn't fun to play and that the slowdown on riddle of fire was jarring... But guess what still exists? The slowdown on riddle of fire. Despite the devs agreeing it feels bad. That's how steep of an uphill climb we have right now with monk. Even when they recognize what a major problem with monk is they don't do anything to fix it.

I am utterly confused on how feedback that has not mentioned GL4, until his post, will get misinterpreted as feedback for GL4.

That's like complaining about Huton and assuming Dev's will think we're talking about shikuchi. I think it's a bit of a stretch to presume how Dev's interpret feedback. This game has, for the most part, had the Dev's show a lot of consideration of player feedback across the board.

[echo78]

SB monk was more fun to play than this. slowdown on riddle was worth the dmg, and using ogcds to fill the space allowed for nice damage combos. Not a perfect feeling after no ogcds, but now, it's more noticeable with less off globals.

Anyhow, this is basically the ARR monk style, so if that's your thing, you will probably enjoy this version later.

Nah, the slowdown has always been horrible. Also, shadowbringers monk feels significantly worse to play then ARR monk was right now. They aren't similar at all. Just because the loltkrotation is dead doesn't magically make SH monk like ARR monk.

HW monk was the peak for monk imo. It had speed, dots, OCGDs, no RNG, no slowdown, no reliance on a physical party comp. Its a shame what monk turned into after HW.

[echo78]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to presume how Dev's interpret feedback. This game has, for the most part, had the Dev's show a lot of consideration of player feedback across the board.

Well they said they got feedback that riddle of fire sucks and did absolutely nothing to change it. So yeah, I wouldn't be so sure about that.

[Rockette]

Well they said they got feedback that riddle of fire sucks and did absolutely nothing to change it. So yeah, I wouldn't be so sure about that.

And there are many more examples, non monk related also, where they have. These forums are feedback, not orders. Although, after the mass uproar about Bow Mage from HW, and its eventual do-over in Stormblood, I was certain they'd remove the slow from RoF. Especially since they removed the OGCDs they said were the reason for it.

I also enjoyed dot management monk. Even now, there's that slight clip with demolish I always wish we could offset again with Fracture, ToD, but I'm not sure if I miss it, I preferred the TK rotation. I've nearly hit 80 and the class has improved, I think it will be okay in Savage content. But it is just awful in dungeons, especially with a "hurdy durr lets appreciate the scenery" tank while you're watching GL tick and screaming internally.

[MaraD_]

Err... no one in this thread, including me, is complaining about GL4. GL4 is fine, it's great. The only complaint I'd have is the lack of new animation aura to symbolise it.

It's the playability of managing stacks in casual content that they added a quality of life fix for in Stormblood, then removed.

I wrote it in the title :/

I know, that is my point.
Notice how in every interview devs/yoshida dont seem to understand the issue? If it cant be summed up propperly in 3-5 words, it WILL be misunderstood.
Interviewer says "X is a problem", and yoshida proceeds to answer why Y isnt a problem, or patches Y or Z next patch "There, i fixed Y or Z for you"
US: "We wanted X fixed..."

Even if he stayed on track, and was like, "oh, riddle of fire? too slow? you want to go faster? ok we'll add GL4, and keep riddle of fire, that should fix what u wanted"
its almost like hes TRYING to be a monkeys paw.

For the sake of giving people the benefit of the doubt, I can only assume its a translation issue, which is why it only fails on complex matters, and not on direct issues which can be explained in 3-5 words.