The Ascian Question: Have the Ascians ever lied?

[GenBroadaxe]

I think you're also hitting the root problem with Hydaelyn though not sure if you are aware of it. Her being a Primal she is "our creation" - man made so therefore she will have the faults because she contains what is mankind's concept of good. Since these traits are what are seen as good, it's likely we will excuse the faults in those paths (when explaining Hydaeyln is different and not really meant to "harm" us).

I think the post ARR stories have also been setting us up to make us think of primals in less black and white terms. As Iscah mentioned, Hydaeyln is in a unique position where she's not being summoned, she communicates to us in another plane, and is able to act on our plane at will (to her detriment since it weakens her). It could be that she's a capital P primal who is a being that has always been there in some way while others are lower P primals who are created by the will of mortals and therefore act by different rules.

Hydaeyln continually tells us to "Hear, feel, think" which to me says she wants us to be independent and make our own path, so I don't think we're going to become antagonistic to her when we have to battle the light. After all, she sent her avatar to the First to help stop the flood of light which shows that she knows that a balance has to be maintained as well. Unlike the Ascians, she listened to the WoD and acted to help them. The big difference being is that Hydaeyln maintains balance to maintain life, while the Ascians want a balance in their favor to cause rejoinings which would destroy life and empower Zodiark. So while Ascians aren't directly lying when they talk about balance, they're also omitting that whole "oh yeah and you all will die, but we're beings who live outside the natural flow of things so we're good" aspect to it.

From everything I've seen Hydaelyn has been truthful in the brief moments she can communicate with us. She wants the balance to stay in Light's favor because it means life continues. The Ascians can never be fully honest with us because balance favoring darkness means rejoinings and the destruction of mortal life.

[QT_Melon]

I think the post ARR stories have also been setting us up to make us think of primals in less black and white terms. As Iscah mentioned, Hydaeyln is in a unique position where she's not being summoned, she communicates to us in another plane, and is able to act on our plane at will (to her detriment since it weakens her). It could be that she's a capital P primal who is a being that has always been there in some way while others are lower P primals who are created by the will of mortals and therefore act by different rules.
From everything I've seen Hydaelyn has been truthful in the brief moments she can communicate with us. She wants the balance to stay in Light's favor because it means life continues. The Ascians can never be fully honest with us because balance favoring darkness means rejoinings and the destruction of mortal life.

As far as the primal narrative - it's a bit more than that. From what I see it, not just "primals =good/bad"

It's more of an allegory towards today's religious beliefs. Everyone blames religion but it's "man" that has created it. Not that religion is inherently bad, but it's a cautionary tale.

I think that's what the setup is. We see "life is good" preserve it at all costs. It's an ideal mankind has set up.

We naturally don't trust Darkness - it's chaotic, destructive, and unorganized. It means it can destroy those we love and care about.

She *never* has talked about Balance, yet this is what the Ascians have mentioned. We fear the consequences of said balance because yes, that means life is lost. Rejoining will obviously kill off life on other shards. So here lies a moral conflict. We would naturally side with preserving life.

For the record: yes she went to the First after it was getting the Flood of Light - based off her orders on banishing the Dark. However, she only stopped the Flood (which is that shell thingy you see in the illustration as far as I can tell). Not exactly eradicated it because of preservation of life. Which is why we're in the situation we're in.

[svann]

From a moral standpoint there is no distinction between intentional deception and outright lies. It only makes a difference to a lawyer.

[Bright-Flower]

The issue with primals is largley not so much that they're all 'evil' but rather the aether consumption being bad for the land. Alexander for example ended up being 'good' but knew it had to be destroyed for the greater good of the world because he would do so much damage just by existing.

[QT_Melon]

The issue with primals is largley not so much that they're all 'evil' but rather the aether consumption being bad for the land. Alexander for example ended up being 'good' but knew it had to be destroyed for the greater good of the world because he would do so much damage just by existing.

Right, and that's been discussed (not that it shouldn't be continued...just saying). I think though people were willing to side with Hydaelyn however, due to what the OP's post is posing. Lying. How were the Ascians lying specifically and if at all?

Hydaelyn's account was that Zodiark (which I'm assuming the Zodiark she's talking about was the other primal summoned with her) so that she as a preventative measure split the world into different dimensions (shards) and expelled Zodiark as the moon.

Question is - what "power" was Zodiark seeking and to what end?

What Eureka for example was stating is that primals do have their own Aether for its existence but may have to consume aether to commit certain acts.

We do know or gather certain things (but I could be misreading) splitting into different shards unto itself got rid of Zodiark but what is going on with the aether itself.
We know Aether is a "lifestream" when beings die, it goes back into the planet...as basically the most efficient "recycling bin"
We know that rejoning worlds weakens Hydaelyn, but it is weakening the planet, or the primal?
Matoya mentioned aether levels were dropping. Which is that Aether...seems to be a finite resource.

I just think it's a bit odd that what should be a natural occurrence - rejoining aether is bad, unless something needs control of it