Which DRK was the best

[Alexow]

What really bugs me about ShB version is the Soul Eater combo ad nauseum. I thought they were past this when the added new combos to PLD in HW.

To be honest adding an extra combo like the other tanks isnt really going to make it more interesting, right now its just press 4 instead of 3 every X seconds.
HW DRK was no different from this, especially since there was no point to ever use Non-DA Souleater, which is why they just merged SE and Delirium; and Im guessing they didnt make Scourge a combo since it would just be a PLD copy (then again they copied WAR now so :T )

Also, Ranged classes only have one combo too and noone complains about it, so it should be fine for having a tank like that as long they have other stuff making it interesting

[DRKoftheAzure]

To get back to the topic at hand, this is actually a lot more lopsided than I expected it would be. I figured a more 60/40 split, or even closer, and that's coming from someone who ultimately, however slightly, preferred the HW idea of a DRK.

That being said, prior to the Shadowbringers iteration I would have had to ask simply, "Why not both?" We could have returned counterattacks, defensive spending options, and the oGCD diversity all while maintaining DRK's APM and while making even better use of the Black Blood skills.

...Now, instead, I have to wonder, "Why play DRK?"

I think that's how everyone who played both both Heavensward and Stormblood DRK is feeling right now after media tour info dropped... "Why play DRK?"

[DRKoftheAzure]

What really bugs me about ShB version is the Soul Eater combo ad nauseum. I thought they were past this when the added new combos to PLD in HW.

It's funny how history repeats itself... but yeah DPS skill ceiling on PLD could be a lot better, and DRK is lacking a skill ceiling in DPS...

[Tint]

Also, Ranged classes only have one combo too and noone complains about it, so it should be fine for having a tank like that as long they have other stuff making it interesting

I don't have a problem with only 1 combo either. Let's be honest, in HW I was sitting in tankstance 24/7 and was basically only spamming Delirium-combo ad nauseum.

But what made DRK interesting is the mana management. And that is gone now with the removal of Dark Arts.

It was already bad in SB when you was not in tankstance, but in tankstance there were some decision making involved.

Is Carve and Spit ready? Dark Arts it for the damage buff.
Do you have 50 blood? Dark Arts Bloodspiller, so the extra potency is not reduced by the tankstance.
Nothing ready? Dark Arts Souleater for the buffed selfheal.
Are you overcapping mana? Dark Arts Syphon Strike.
Are overcapping mana really hard because Delirium is ready and Syphon Strike is your next combo hit? Dark Arts Dark Passenger.

Of course in dps stance these prioritys were mostly gone anyway, but ShB DRK could have been more like SB DRK in Grit I think.

[Kyzrath]

Also, Ranged classes only have one combo too and noone complains about it, so it should be fine for having a tank like that as long they have other stuff making it interesting

Plenty of people complain about it, it's not our fault if you don't read discussions about other classes. And still, Paladin has a few combos branching from Riot Blade with ShB. Warrior has the same. DRK is now a 1-2-3 tank with no Dark Arts left to boost skills we might want to boost, Salted Earth's cd was doubled and its potency reduced, Dark Passenger is just gone (you can claim it's replaced by FoS all you want), Blood Weapon + Quietus no longer works... Hell, Blood Weapon no longer functions as Blood Weapon did for 4 years.

Said tank has very few things making it interesting now.

[Alexow]

Plenty of people complain about it, it's not our fault if you don't read discussions about other classes. And still, Paladin has a few combos branching from Riot Blade with ShB. Warrior has the same. DRK is now a 1-2-3 tank with no Dark Arts left to boost skills we might want to boost, Salted Earth's cd was doubled and its potency reduced, Dark Passenger is just gone (you can claim it's replaced by FoS all you want), Blood Weapon + Quietus no longer works... Hell, Blood Weapon no longer functions as Blood Weapon did for 4 years.

Said tank has very few things making it interesting now.

Oh my bad, I never really saw anyone complaining about it in other places so I just assumed everyone was fine with the ranged combos.
Also I was just "defending" ( well maybe just being neutral about it ) SB DRK, I dislike the ShB DRK changes too like a lot of people

[Reynhart]

HW DRK was no different from this, especially since there was no point to ever use Non-DA Souleater, which is why they just merged SE and Delirium;

In HW, the question was not wether there was a point to use non DA-Souleater, but if you had the MP to use it, and if you needed the heal even without DA. It would have been easy to put a different effect on Power Slash, for example to keep a haste effect, which at least no other tank already have.

Also, Ranged classes only have one combo too and noone complains about it, so it should be fine for having a tank like that as long they have other stuff making it interesting

Ranged classes have a completely different system based on proc, so you can't really compare that. The fact that Machinist will switch to a rigid 3-step combo is one thing I will most likely dislike. On the other hand, some melee DPS have up to three combos, so it's not inconceivable to keep at least two.

[Alexow]

In HW, the question was not wether there was a point to use non DA-Souleater, but if you had the MP to use it, and if you needed the heal even without DA. It would have been easy to put a different effect on Power Slash, for example to keep a haste effect, which at least no other tank already have.

Ranged classes have a completely different system based on proc, so you can't really compare that. The fact that Machinist will switch to a rigid 3-step combo is one thing I will most likely dislike. On the other hand, some melee DPS have up to three combos, so it's not inconceivable to keep at least two.

If you have enough MP youd use SE, otherwise youd use Delirium. Dont see how pressing a different button adds much to a class, which is why they just merged the two combo enders.
Also I dont remember the heal ever mattering that much, it didnt recover that well and was locked into Grit.

And true about the melee DPS but theyd have to figure out something more interesting that a DoT or Buff, otherwise theres not much of a point since its just a copy.
Look at GBN, they only have one combo but its a bit more interesting since completing it gives a resource to use on one of two different things

[Reynhart]

Also I dont remember the heal ever mattering that much, it didnt recover that well and was locked into Grit.

Which the majority of people still used back then. It might not have been the optimal way, but it could made DRK more entertaining to play.

And true about the melee DPS but theyd have to figure out something more interesting that a DoT or Buff, otherwise theres not much of a point since its just a copy.

We don't need a 100% completely original concept for a combo, a unique buff would have still given a unique flavor to DRK, especially now that we've lost the hast effect on Blood Weapon.

Look at GBN, they only have one combo but its a bit more interesting since completing it gives a resource to use on one of two different things

Our only combo already gives us our two ressources that we need for everything else. Who knows, maybe they should have separated Blood and MP into two finishers so that we'd have to juggle between the two. Or having a combo to build Dark Arts instead of TBN and still speding those (more scarce) Dark Arts to enchance some skills.

[Alexow]

Which the majority of people still used back then. It might not have been the optimal way, but it could made DRK more entertaining to play.

I really doubt the heal mattered at all, especially since Grit also gave a 20% less damage taken buff

We don't need a 100% completely original concept for a combo, a unique buff would have still given a unique flavor to DRK, especially now that we've lost the hast effect on Blood Weapon.

True but we dont really need a combo to do that, old Blood Weapon was fine and Im also sad about the haste change

Our only combo already gives us our two ressources that we need for everything else. Who knows, maybe they should have separated Blood and MP into two finishers so that we'd have to juggle between the two.

We kinda already had that with Bloodspiller and Dark Arts(which was replaced with Edge/Flood) but I suppose making atleast Bloodspiller into some kind of finisher instead of being similar to Fell Cleave could work too

Blood and MP is a good system but I have a feeling they have no idea how to make them work together, It worked alright with TBN giving Blood but now they just feel disconnected