Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[kidalutz]

Enmity mitigation actions are in your set for a reason.

If you want ignore them because your deeps is the only thing that matters, it explains much why the only duty in the history or ARR in which were requested the DPS role to use a very minimal brain in a MSQ, was the greatest MSQ progression roadblock ever seen in history of MMO's genre, and devs had to nerf the duty to the ground and beyond, in order to let the horde of (DPS) players gated behind it to pass.

Steps Of Faith.

I think this has gone on long enough on with the show.

[Kaylessa]

Enmity mitigation actions are in your set for a reason.

If you want ignore them because your deeps is the only thing that matters, it explains much why the only duty in the history or ARR in which were requested the DPS role to use a very minimal brain in a MSQ, was the greatest MSQ progression roadblock ever seen in history of MMO's genre, and devs had to nerf the duty to the ground and beyond, in order to let the horde of (DPS) players gated behind it to pass.

Steps Of Faith.

People still struggle on duty finder with it, often because people can't get on the same page. There's about 3 or 4 different strategies for it. So the strategy I learned was that main tank grabs the adds, off tank does cannon or helps burn the boss. What duty finder likes to do ... sometimes, is for both tanks to grab the adds. So when main tanking I'd be dragging the group up the front only for some to be taken by the off tank and dragged ... to the back? And as an off tank people would yell at me for not doing my job and I'm standing there going "why isn't the main tank grabbing the adds"? And the mechanics are hardly ever done, and some tanks like to tank the adds well behind the dragon ... just a bit of a mess really.

[Cincierta]

I'm still at an absolute loss of words right now. Just got out of a dusk vigil party while leveling up an alt blm. Party comp was DRK, RDM, AST and me on BLM.

We all say our hellos and ast tells us its their first time here. Tank pops their stance and darkside, healer pops protect and nocturnal and we're off...and before I can even get thunder 2 off tank pulls adds around the corner and realize this might not go very well. First trash pack goes down and tank almost dies, and quickly loses aggro because they only used Unleash once. Next trash set they try to mass pull again, but had to remember that hey, next mylodon doesn't bring in the bacon until you kill that set.

We finally get to the first boss and I warn the group about the crosshairs = get ready to get stunned. During the fight, the DRK really seems to like the color orange and stands in it often. After sharing damage and downing the boss, we move on and before I can even get my dots going, the drk decides to do another mass pull...almost all the way to the locked door. Needless to say this didn't end well.

Because LoS is a thing yo.

We wipe, and the tank has the balls to ask 'not sure what happened there was that me?' No, it was the wall, you silly goose. YES IT WAS YOU. I had to remind them the healer was new and stuff here hits like a truck, though it didn't seem like it really got through their head. I check them...and realize not only do they have almost all DoW and DoM at 60, their main being 70, and having what looked like a few ivalican raid gear pieces, but...I don't think they really understood the basics of doing 4-man leveling content as a tank. Because BLM and RDM can easily rip hate if the tank's not paying attention.

Hopefully that'll change patch day.

We get on to the second boss and I warn them about the adds and red donut, because red donuts from undead bosses do not taste like strawberries. We down it relatively fine and move on. DRK continues to mass pull until we get to where the wolf before the final boss was, and I'm fairly certain at this point that they realized they shouldn't be mass-pulling in pugs unless otherwise requested.

We get to the final boss and I warn them about the mechanics (whirling gaol/winds of winter = get behind a rock or major ouchies), then the DRK proceeds to use every single defensive buff they had in their arsenal before pulling. However what had me seeing absolute red was what the tank was doing when the fight started.

Not. Moving. From. The. Middle. FOR ANYTHING.

Needless to say the three of us non-tanks got behind rocks for the most part and avoided most of the damage while our tank ate stacks like me eating a bag of Cheetos Puffs at 2 am. Ate the whole thing. We down the boss, I pass on loot, comm the ast because Twelve above they carried that tank hard.

[HyoMinPark]

It is not a DPS's job to help the tank to hold emnity, it is a damage dealers job to do damage.

Proper usage of enmity tools doesn't lower DPS. This is an irrelevant comment. Enmity management is done at zero cost to the user. Just weave in an oGCD. As I said before, kind of wish enmity wasn't being made a joke in less than 48 hours.

Also, healers are expected to DPS because they aren't spending 90% of the content actually healing. This game just doesn't call for that, and that won't change going forward either. I've never seen a role so insistent on only using half of their toolkit and standing around idle for most of a fight because they think they're somehow more special than the other two roles and don't have to press the buttons.



Anyways, I'm done with this conversation. I'm off to go enjoy a final UwU night before expac drops.

[Kaylessa]

Proper usage of enmity tools doesn't lower DPS. This is an irrelevant comment. Enmity management is done at zero cost to the user. Just weave in an oGCD. As I said before, kind of wish enmity wasn't being made a joke in less than 48 hours.

Also, healers are expected to DPS because they aren't spending 90% of the content actually healing. This game just doesn't call for that, and that won't change going forward either. I've never seen a role so insistent on only using half of their toolkit and standing around idle for most of a fight because they think they're somehow more special than the other two roles and don't have to press the buttons.



Anyways, I'm done with this conversation. I'm off to go enjoy a final UwU night before expac drops.

A healer is expected to DPS yes, but their job is to heal, and their priority is to heal. If you're one of those healers that lets people get down to 10% health to focus on DPS because that's what your static does, and it caused a wipe in DF when you're pugging, it's not the groups fault, it's your fault. Because you forgot your priorities.

A tank is expected to DPS, but their job is to hold enmity, and their priority is to hold enmity. If as a tank in your static you can switch off tank stance for all bosses, but when you're pugging it caused a wipe because the DPS didn't pop diversion and ripped enmity off you, that's your fault as a tank because you forgot your priorities.

[ForteNightshade]

Yes, Diversion suppresses 90% of your enmity...for 30 seconds, with a 120 seconds cooldown.

This unfortunately leads to the following scenario.

DPS: *Has 20 seconds left on Diversion CD, rips aggro and dies*
Tank: Use Diversion lol
DPS: I did, it's on CD
Tank: I don't care, use Diversion lol
DPS: I DID!
Tank: I shouldn't have to generate aggro, that's a damage loss, keep Diversion up all the time!
DPS: ...*Facedesks and stops attacking entirely to avoid ripping aggro*
Tank: Stop AFKing!

Hello catch-22, how nice to see you again.

But yes, it's going to be moot point after tomorrow.

You're strawmanning.

If a DPS uses Diversion properly, the scenario you just described will not happen unless the tank is woefully undergeared. In which case, the tank then has to compensate. Warrior aggro is absolutely insane. Even a good Samurai straight up can't pull aggro if they use Diversion to quell their burst. What usually happens is they either don't use it whatsoever or they pop it only after they take aggro... at which point it's completely useless. It boils down to this. If the DPS aren't using Diversion and rip, that's on them. If they use it properly and still rip. It's on the tank. The key word here is "properly" though.

Don't go there. I've had to teach healers on how to properly use lucid dreaming in content they have no other tools to do so in order for them to not run out of mana. Don't confuse healers any more than they actually are. Timing it do to two purposes in pre-formed parties might be possible, timing it to do two purposes in duty finder content is well down on the priority list.

Up until people get more tools to fiddle with, the best and basic way to use lucid dreaming in big fights is pop it at 2/3 - 3/4 mp, then pop it every time it goes off cooldown when below around 2/3 or 3/4 mp. That way you'll have it up regularly, and waiting till your mp is too low to use always runs the risk that you won't get anywhere near full mp by the time it comes up. That is the basic rule of thumb for healers with lucid dreaming. It's a much worse scenario for the healer to run out of mp and no longer be healing than it is for the tank to miss out on maxing their dps, especially on normal content.

If they use Lucid at those intervals, aggro is generally not going to be an issue unless they are massively overhealing. And therein lies the problem. I'm not going to sit in tank stance because a White Mage can't resist spamming Medica II every time the slightest bit of damage goes out. If you're teaching them now to use Lucid properly, then teach them how to manage their aggro. Saying it's just a tank's responsibility and washing your hands of it is an excuse for laziness.

I was spamming trials yesterday. I had 3 level 50 trials where I couldn't do rage of halone more than once or twice in sword oath because it'd rip aggro off the main tank. 3 or 4 dps were on the verge of ripping, I did halone once then had to do my incomplete 2 button damage combo. Shirked the main tank, could do halone 3 or 4 times before going back to my 2 button rotation ... it's annoying. These are veteran tanks also, not new guys.

No, they are not. First and foremost, it's 50 content. Warrior has far less options and no DPS stance. If they're dropping Defiance (which is technically a damage increase), then you take over tanking. Not finishing your combos just to let them hold the boss is bad form on your part.

[Kaylessa]

No, they are not. First and foremost, it's 50 content. Warrior has far less options and no DPS stance. If they're dropping Defiance (which is technically a damage increase), then you take over tanking. Not finishing your combos just to let them hold the boss is bad form on your part.

They were in tank stance, so they wanted to main tank. I don't like engaging in aggro battles so generally if someone switches on their tank stance I'll do the off tanking.

[KaleShibata]

Can we get off the stone walled discussion and return to the point of the thread? we're all clearly just smashing heads into each other and its accomplishing absolutely nothing, unless you count missing each other's point as something.

my last run for tonight because RL has me stresssed, Grimlyt Dark. trying to get in understanding limitations of healing classes cases scholar. Running as Paladin though the run went perfectly big pulls and all (save the over eager dps riping the Hexadrone because they didn't know it could be dragged to the lower area with more trash mobs. nothing bad came of that just me having to about face sheild lob and keep jogging really XD)

another run that completed withing the smooth expectation of 20 mins, though I'm not sure why I got two comms, all i did was the same things I've been doing every run on my paladin: See mob they see me, drive by flash them, circle of scorn one set if GCD wouldn't let me flash next set if not advance again after a second flash down to the last set hit flash circle of scorn and spam total eclipse until 3 or less and basicly help burn. rampart on the way if i knew the enemies would catch me to deal damage, awareness if rampart was not yet off CD/ bulwark or sentinel open if that was the case and the 20% better healing incoming. (can't ever spell it right when i can't see the name. go brain matter) and every now and then if i felt i had my aggro super boosted I'd pop passage of arms and 28% block reduce tank for about 14 seconds. (in this case i had it for the unbreakable aoe the final colossus mob has along with divine veil to the party to pretty much negate damage to 0) that's basicly how I've mass pulled Grimlyt everytime and i get commed for it...I dunno guys... either I am good at what I'm doing or people at that point have a pretty rocky experience with it normally.

I dunno, can anyone tell me because its actually starting to worry me. oh and my comm usually goes out to the healer. its kinda mandatory to me.

[Barraind]

I had 3 level 50 trials where I couldn't do rage of halone more than once or twice in sword oath because it'd rip aggro off the main tank.

You generate more threat using Halone combos in sword oath than you do using a dps combo in tank stance. Its why I try and make paladins tank when I'm on my warrior in level 50 alliance raids. Your best damage combo at 50 is your threat combo, your AE threat is significantly easier to maintain and doesnt need goad/tactician, and warrior doesnt have anywhere near the silly opener they do at higher levels, so you might as well do it.

They were in tank stance, so they wanted to main tank. I don't like engaging in aggro battles so generally if someone switches on their tank stance I'll do the off tanking.

Then DONT USE HALONE.


Warriors are basically derpbags at level 50 content. The amount of relevant buttons they dont have at that point is painful.

[Anselmet]

Its not the dps's job to help the tank... not the job of a healer to dps... not the job for tank to stance dance... all these have the same energy, that being completely and woefully against teamwork.

A dps should be mindful of agro, a healer should dps and contribute, and a tank should also contribute. Team.Work. Learn. It.