Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

[Razard]

I generally see why people don't want harder stuff in most of the game but it says something when pre 50 dungeons are harder and require a little more team work than dungeons beyond that. When was the last pharos sirius or aurum vale? Being a tank I at least miss when you had to be more aware of your surroundings.

Remember when people would quit the second they realised they got Pharos Syrius in their roulette?

I remember.

[AxlStream]

Then don't do it? Stick to Ultimate. Actually I don't even see that you ever made an attempt on Ultimate.

I don't see how me not having any serious attempts at Ultimate is relevant here. I personally would be estatic if a dungeon at level cap would pose a threat to me as a tank. But they just don't. I can pull wall to wall without fear, I don't have to CD the "tankbusters", hell, I even solo'd the 2nd boss of Hell's Lid from 50% on release as a Warrior! The dungeons are just not a threat and nobody in a sane mind will argue that either EX trials or Savage have been extremely difficult themselves spare from a few select fights. I understand the goal of Stormblood was to ease up the difficulty to allow more people to step into high level end game but they dialed it back too much.

[Izanagi_Fiaresu]

Or people doing Sastasha level of performance could just stick to Sastasha until they up their game.

Look every single person wants MMos to have dark souls level of difficulty in every mode. The dungeons arent supposed to be challenging thats why there is a roulette.

Also Mythic+ is WoW is hard to do. You gotta get chest for your weekly cap, but because of the gatekeeping you can't. Like no one ever wants more challenging content they always wanna gate keep

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Look every single person wants MMos to have dark souls level of difficulty in every mode. The dungeons arent supposed to be challenging thats why there is a roulette.

Also Mythic+ is WoW is hard to do. You gotta get chest for your weekly cap, but because of the gatekeeping you can't. Like no one ever wants more challenging content they always wanna gate keep

There is a roulette to pad out queue times. Has nothing to do with difficulty. Also reminder that this mindset just leads to the usual complaints of "Playing as Y'shtola or Hien in a single fight, with only 4 buttons to press, is too hard."

[LalaRu]

...There is virtually no challenge outside of savage raids...

Working as intended.

[Shurrikhan]

Further, even in those situations, only the uneducated would claim a repulsion to that as "elitist," and why would we heed what such individuals have to say?

Because they kick you when you dare to speak otherwise in any way that may somehow offend? Because, however unfortunate it may be, they have legitimate power -- as does any other stratum, fold, or opinion of player -- when a majority of a given group? That's their right, and thus one may say that that result is everything working as intended, but it's hard to believe the chasm that would lead to these conflicts is likewise intended or a result of well-functioning designs.

I've more than several times been kicked for merely asking my (other) DPS to "Please use your AoE skills when we're fighting 4 or more mobs at a time, or at least attack the same target as <the other DPS or myself>." About the same number have occurred from asking, as a healer, my DPS to dodge or the tank not to cleave the melee. Having played several MMOs each with significant skill gap and poor player learning support tools (apart, in most cases, from a better difficulty curve), I don't think I've ever seen an MMO where kicks so often occur, especially from poorer performing players onto those encouraging, shepherding, or pushing more optimal play rather than more competent players declining to make use of a player who is not yet prepared for the stratum of content they'd queued for.

Yes, we can avoid players not of our own skill level or with whom we do not share gameplay habits, and -- as in the above examples -- it will often time out such that being kicked from such a poorly performing group, even including the next queue time, may still lead to a faster clear if you random in with a better group next time. But this ignores a more crucial point.

By the time you have these kinds of conflicts to worry about, you have a significantly sized group that identifies largely antithetically (anything we don't do must be "them" and anything "they" do must be something we don't do) and antipathically ("Damn those elitists!"), causing significant polarization that only adds unto itself given (even fairly reasonable) reactions from those they then exclude. All this, when we should ideally instead be seeing a desire to improve and see others improve and ideally be open to whatever different means of enjoying the game where they do not have to be in conflict (as I would argue that enjoying RPG aspects of the game and its mathematical optimizations need not be)...

To a large group of people, improvement towards mastery is itself gameplay and content worth experiencing for its sheer enjoyment. To another, it's not that great in itself, but certainly extrinsically enjoyable in that it allows you access to so much more content, which the externally increases the size of the playerbase within any given tier or stratum of content. To the last, it's a distraction which stands in conflict with other activities that can be gleaned from the game. But while that may be three groups, one ultimately treats optimization (even in the vaguest sort of way) very, very differently from the other two, such that you end up with two (essentially boolean) stances. It's like if you took all values between 1 and 100 and then those under, say, 20 decided to treat all numbers higher as an irreconcilable monolith. And that number will of course shift. In later Ex primal content, maybe that's up to 35 or whatever, but the point is how much resistance we face for going, or more importantly suggesting that others go, those few numbers higher, since however small or tall the order, or how easily a significant improvement can be made, one is all too often called the same thing.

[Shurrikhan]

Remember when people would quit the second they realised they got Pharos Syrius in their roulette?

I remember.

I miss pre-nerf Pharos Syrius so badly. I failed the timer once (due largely to one person d/cing constantly) and it was not remotely worth its rewards, but damn was it fun.

Speaking of, though, remember original Demon Wall?...

[seraseth]

Speaking of, though, remember original Demon Wall?...

I loved the original demon wall! I was surprised when they removed the bee's. The biggest problem I ran into with groups on that fight wasn't not killing the bee's/wall fast enough, it was not paying attention to your angle and getting knocked off.

[RyuDragnier]

Remember when people would quit the second they realised they got Pharos Syrius in their roulette?

I remember.

I'm still angry they nerfed that. All you had to do was NOT try to burn the first boss so you can take the adds as they spawn, try to keep the egg enrage stacks down on the 2nd boss, actually kill adds the 3rd boss, and for the healers to ACTUALLY USE ESUNA AND FULL HEAL the party in the last one.

In other words, all they asked for was basic competency, and the playerbase failed us horribly on that. Thank god they never listened to the playerbase again for Final Steps of Faith or Royal Menagerie. People need to actually get good instead of asking for nerfs to bosses all the time.

[VargasVermillion]

Remember when people would quit the second they realised they got Pharos Syrius in their roulette?

I remember.

Never happend to me personally, og pharos wasn't even that hard either. My overall point was that these things were hardly that demanding, most dungeons now boil down to pull everything and aoe, at least in vale you had to take positioning into account. But yeah overall it wasn't that much harder, bosses tend to be well made for the most part.