I just had an enlightenment regarding Healers in Shadowbringers

[DiznypKC]

Sebazy for Healer President. Sign the petition below.

[Brandedblade]

Something I came to the realization of for scholar is that one of the intentions of the skill culling was to give our tools a clear and distinct purpose. Whereas certain skills in the old toolkit where...not so well designed. Miasma II, for example, was a skill intended to be our aoe filler, however, with its total potency being higher then Ruin II, it usurped Ruin II's functionality as your mobility and weaving tool in single target settings.

This was addressed in ShB with the potency buff on Ruin II to make it comparable to Miasma II's old potency (I'm fully aware that the 200 potency is not until level 72, however iirc dont all the ranks of Broil mastery increase Ruin II's potency by some amount) and Art of War was added, with it being stronger upfront then Miasma II was at the cost of being weaker overall then Miasma II, and by extension, weaker then Ruin II. This overall design change gives the two abilities a clear and distinct function.

While I understand that some people love the additional challenge of optimizing things like Miasma II, their ultimately seem to he wonky design elements that while streamlined, are ultimately more approachable and healthier for future design.

[ForteNightshade]

One thing I've always considered to be good about complexity is that it creates engagement and focus; but AST had the balance issue of having too much to handle and use while having a 1.5s cast time, which was unheard of til' they got it in Stormblood just so that the flow of the job can do better. You know what that did? Kicked WHM out of a majority of high-end raid groups, and causing the peer pressure of "We need you to play AST because it's better than WHM", which basing on fact is fine, but festering that kind of environment isn't healthy for the community as a whole, especially to those that are actually just getting into doing Extreme Trials or Savage Raids. Even though meeting DPS Checks is the goal post, forcing someone to change to something they are foreign to doesn't help. With the reduction to AST's utilities(Damage Increase, MP Recovery, TP Recovery, Crit Rate, Damage Reduction, Haste from Stormblood) it puts them in a place where they aren't a necessity since all they do now is raise overall damage with cards and also have decent healing despite people not liking how some of them are looking to be used.

Astro was never a necessity. They just made things easier in a tier designed to the antithesis of White Mage's gameplay. The solution would have been to give White Mage some utility (Hi, Bravery/Cheer) in lieu of even more healing and destroying the complexity Scholar and Astro had. And therein lies the rub for a lot of people. While Scholar escaped only singed and with a stellar heal kit intact, Astro lost more than just their eyebrows. This took away options for people who enjoy the healer role but want something beyond the simplicity of your basic healer. Take the DPS for a moment. You have a variety of options ranging from the easier side of things (Red Mage, Samurai) all the way to the more complex (Ninja, Summoner). It gave people options based on what they fancied. Now all three healers look to be a different shade of vanilla. Ironically, it may not even solve the underlining problem. White Mage still lacks any utility. If Astro's now gimped cards pull enough ahead... we'll be right back where we started.

It just seems a bit... odd. The issue here was clearly Balance yet instead of changing it to something else, they made every card a crappier version of now old Balance. And encouraged padding one player, because that has zero chance of creating a meta. Nope. Never.

My biggest take away from 5.0's grand healer rebalancing is that it just feels lazy, rushed and half-baked. Note, I'll be the first to acknowledge that SE's job design team is anything but lazy IMHO, they are just massively overworked/understaffed.

If I were to guess, they lack inspiration. It does not help, they seem unwilling to yield from their vision of healers focusing on healing despite the game simply not encouraging that playstyle. Perhaps we'll be surprised come next week, but Yoshida already said Eden will follow the Creator difficulty. The last time we heard that, well, it spawned Alte Roite and Catastrophe.

[Lynesse]

I think some of these changes are in response to common complaints healers have about tanks not cycling their CDs properly.

Tanks lose some CDs. Healers get more redundancy. The balance of power here shifts more towards healers, and it's harder for everyone to mess up overall, but it's totally understandable that healers don't feel rewarded after tanks were given so many new DPS toys.

[Ftail]

While Scholar escaped only singed and with a stellar heal kit intact, Astro lost more than just their eyebrows.

What happened to Astro was terrible, but Scholar got completely butchered. SCH DPS was amazingly fun to play at least in my opinion.

[Brandedblade]

What happened to Astro was terrible, but Scholar got completely butchered. SCH DPS was amazingly fun to play at least in my opinion.

While the fun is a matter of personal opinion, outside of ED, most of our dps toolkit was just fluff and extra busywork. I understand the argument of "Complexity=fun" but...isnt it more efficient overall to have your dot be one stronger instead of two weaker dots, one of which has a really awkward duration that slows down the number of other casts you're doing?

[Aurturia]

While the fun is a matter of personal opinion, outside of ED, most of our dps toolkit was just fluff and extra busywork. I understand the argument of "Complexity=fun" but...isnt it more efficient overall to have your dot be one stronger instead of two weaker dots, one of which has a really awkward duration that slows down the number of other casts you're doing?

As much as anything else its the feeling of being told "No, you're playing wrong" and having our toys taken away. For me synching down to a pre bane level is just painful, applying my dot's one at a time like a commoner. XD
But really though i liked the idea of being a combat oriented medic, poisons and contagions were my best weapons. The idea of being forced into a "pure healer" role is like telling me i have to be a certain kind of character, and i dont like that.

[Deceptus]

I think some of these changes are in response to common complaints healers have about tanks not cycling their CDs properly.

Tanks lose some CDs. Healers get more redundancy. The balance of power here shifts more towards healers, and it's harder for everyone to mess up overall, but it's totally understandable that healers don't feel rewarded after tanks were given so many new DPS toys.

Would be understandable if so many mess ups didn't result in one shot deaths. But SE relies on those too much IMHO.

While the fun is a matter of personal opinion, outside of ED, most of our dps toolkit was just fluff and extra busywork. I understand the argument of "Complexity=fun" but...isnt it more efficient overall to have your dot be one stronger instead of two weaker dots, one of which has a really awkward duration that slows down the number of other casts you're doing?

Problem its, it's not a potency increase. It's a potency loss

SB: Miasma (230 pot) and Bio II (350 Pot) = 580 pot

Low level: Miasma (300 pot) and Bio 1 (240) = 540 pot (screwed up the math earlier)

Shadowbringers: Bio = 240 pot (unchanged)

Shadowbringers: Bio 2 = 500 pot

So in low level content you're losing 230 potency on dots and in mid level content you're losing 80 potency on dots

Yes ruin 2 and broil are buffed, but how stupid is it in low level content that your instant cast spell does more than your filler?

From lvl 38 to 54 your best filler spell is what is supposed to be your mid mana, instant cast, movement spell.

[Brandedblade]

Would be understandable if so many mess ups didn't result in one shot deaths. But SE relies on those too much IMHO.



Problem its, it's not a potency increase. It's a potency loss

SB: Miasma (230 pot) and Bio II (350 Pot) = 580 pot

Low level: Miasma (230 pot) and Bio 1 (240) = 470 pot

Shadowbringers: Bio = 240 pot (unchanged)

Shadowbringers: Bio 2 = 500 pot

So in low level content you're losing 230 potency on dots and in mid level content you're losing 80 potency on dots

Yes ruin 2 and broil are buffed, but how stupid is it in low level content that your instant cast spell does more than your filler?

From lvl 38 to 54 your best filler spell is what is supposed to be your mid mana, instant cast, movement spell.

Miasma: 20 potency on cast and 35 potency over 24 seconds:300 total potency (20+(30x8))

Pre ShB Bio II: 35 potency damage over 30 seconds (total potency 350)

Total dot potency: 650

ShB Bio II: 50 potency damage over 30 seconds. (Total potency 500)

Difference: -150 potency

However: Miasma costs a gcd, with it gone, that is replaced with a cast of Broil II.

Broil II pre SHB: 230 potency

Broil II post Shb: 260

12 gcds in 30 seconds assuming 2.5 second gcd

Sb rotation: M, Bio, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, M, B, B

ShB rotation: B, Bio, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B, B

Miasma Total Potency
300+20+30=350

Broil II Total Potency:
Pre ShB: 230x9= 2070

Post SHB: 260x11= 2860

Bio II total potency:

Pre ShB: 350

Post SHB: 500

Pre ShB: 350+ 350+ 2070=2770
Post ShB: 2860+ 500= 3360

Assuming no clipping/ogcd use, ShB rotation is ahead by 590 due to not needing to cast Miasma.

Without clipping the gcd, the best chance to weave would be the bio II cast, so assuming we add an Energy Drain and a Shadow flare there...
2770 + 150 + 250= 3170

Alternatively you can use swiftcast to gain a weave space and an extra energy drain
3170 +150= 3320

Finally, replacing one of the Broil IIs with a Miasma II

3320-30=3290 +150 = 3440

3440- 3360 = 80

Unless you spend all your aetherflow on ED in this 30 second window, you are dealing more potency in that time frame with the SHB rotation. I admit their are other factors, such as using Dissapation. But I'm trying to assume an average 30 second scenario

To be honest, our potencies at lower levels are irrelevant to me considering that the healers are not the only ones who suffer from this issue. But the potency differences in a single target setting are nowhere near as severe as you think at current levels and beyond.

Considering the fact that Ruin II gains its potency with each rank of Broil Mastery at that level range Ruin II will also have 100 potency. And while on a pure potency basis AoW will be stronger, this is bad use of your MP and inefficient for single targets.

[Deceptus]

Snip.

Yeah, I screwed up the math on that initial Miasma II thought it was 6 ticks instead of 8 for some reason.

However, all of this math and theorycrafting you did assumes you're playing at max rank and not synced down into any content which is what I addressed also. Late game will be fine, but pre- lvl 54 is going to suck. You seemed to conveniently ignore all of that topic.

Just like what happened in SB when they changed a bunch of skills and didn't re-do any of the lower content. MCH and DRK were clunky as all hell pre-70 and still are to this day.