THM/BLM MP Crisis/Solutions.

[Anon]

Hello before I can no longer post I'd like to talk about fixing my favorite class thaumaturge. Currently MP is huge problem or rather the lack of MP management tools.

"our four keywords—fun, live, reboot, and rebuild"

Let me be the first to inform you that standing around waiting for mp to recover is NOT fun. While I understand that the ability Convert is incoming next patch I strongly believe that it alone will not suffice. As of right now I have 2356 HP and 3408 MP using convert would only grant me 2/3 of my mp pool at the cost of all my hp which is only about 2 extra combos before I'm back to siting around doing nothing. The following quote is disheartening as the it seems the devs don't seem get it.

Greetings everyone,

Yes, you're right in that the amount of MP that are required to pull off combos is quite high, but this is due to the fact the effects of these combos (and spells) are incredibly potent. As such, it was decided that they would require a large amount of MP to take full advantage of their added potential.

In regards to the comments that Disciples of War utilize their TP for actions and get waived costs for subsequent combos, this has to do with the fact that magic spells are able to used without first needing to generate TP. This is why this distinction was created.

Since the patch I think players are starting to find additional tricks to mitigate the cost of these spells and I think as time goes on even more avenues will be discovered as players adjust to the change. That said, we will continue to monitor your feedback as we always do and pass it along to the dev. team.

While yes they have to build TP the time it takes to build tp IS NOT EQUAL to the time it takes to recover mp. It takes way longer to regain mp than it does to gain enough tp for a combo. Aside from that the TP building player never has to stop, be bored, and/or lose immersion like the MP building player does. I believe using just ONE of the following possible fixes in addition to convert would alleviate the issue.

Magic Combo: A game mechanic that allows for the second spell in a combo to be cast with a 10% MP reduction in cost and the third with a 20% MP reduction in cost. (would allow for better mp management by stacking magic accuracy as you wont start a combo if your spell is resisted.)

Sanguine Delight: Critical spell strikes grant a percentage of the damage caused as MP. Just combine Enhanced Parsimony's effect with Parsimony as it's class exclusive to make space for this trait. (this allows for better mp management through stacking magic crit rate, excruciate, and luck.)

Resonance: Increases range of next cast and reduces MP cost to 0 or half. (it's a niche spell that would see more use this way and would work as a cross class-able Chainspell replacement)

MP Materia: Existing high tier materia needs could be up from around 30 to about 100.

I would really appreciate a dev response on this and also on an unrelated note I believe it should cost 8 totems for an Ifrit weapon and 12 nuts for a Moogle weapon. (seriously 20? what were they thinking....)


EDIT:

THM is such a joke; I just sit in a corner during moogle and watch TV while I wait for my MP to come back. Great immersion going on there! /inb4whiteknight /inb4troll /inb4etc

Exactly how I feel about the moogle fight. And playing conjurer is completely opposite!!!! it's awesome; going all out nuking during phase one, healing during phase 2, and then back to nuking during the end of phase 2. never out of mp, never bored through all that!

[Antanias]

Convert is coming w/ BLM in 1.21, and that's all we really need. Parsimony also helps ^^

[SnickleWhiskers]

Convert is coming w/ BLM in 1.21, and that's all we really need. Parsimony also helps ^^

This man has taken it from me. Patch notes better please.

Although mana reduction would be nice for us soloers, oh yeah and Bard with refresh song.

[Mushy]

I agree. I have been sticking to the first 2 tiers of the combo, DPS seems to be higher, MP doesn't hardly seem like an issue either. Also in some parties they want Conj to be nuker not THM X:
Hopefully THM or BLM gets some kind of MP Regen gear

[Anon]

Convert is coming w/ BLM in 1.21, and that's all we really need. Parsimony also helps ^^

next time read the post and not just the title?

[AdvancedWind]

While yes they have to build TP the time it takes to build tp IS NOT EQUAL to the time it takes to recover mp. It takes way longer to regain mp than it does to gain enough tp for a combo. Aside from that the TP building player never has to stop, be bored, and/or lose immersion like the MP building player does. I believe using just ONE of the following possible fixes in addition to convert would alleviate the issue.

You forgot to consider that a spell combo is considerably stronger than a TP combo; If they balanced out the time it takes to get enough TP for a full combo with the MP it takes to cast a thunder combo, mages would insanely OP.

Magic Combo: A game mechanic that allows for the second spell in a combo to be cast with a 10% MP reduction in cost and the third with a 20% MP reduction in cost.

But this is a good idea

.
Enhanced Parsimony: [/B]Increases MP gained from Parsimony by 75%. (increased from 25%)

Nope. Parsimony already restores enough MP to offset the cost of a Thundaga or Firaga. It's literally a free spell cast every cooldown.

Sanguine Delight: Critical spell strikes grant 25% of the damage caused as MP. (a new trait that could replace one of the less useful swift traits; I'm looking at you Swift Necrogenisis >_>)[/HB]

Swift Necrogenesis is useful, specially after Convert is on the game and healing HP quickly becomes more important.

Resonance: [/B]Increases range of next cast and reduces MP cost to 0 or half. (it's a niche spell that would see more use this way and would work similar to an inverse Chainspell)[/HB]

Parsimony already pretty much does that. But I do agreed Resonance is very situational

[Anon]

@AdvancedWind; I disagree TP users have constant dps the entire fight where as mage combos are only slightly stronger but have HUGE down times. try parsing a moogle fight; you're basically there for blizzara and sanguine rite.

thanks.

Noted and removed the parsimony part.

You're right about swift necrogenisis I thought it was class exclusive but its not its actually swift parsimony that needs to be removed and the extra mp gain added to its natural effect as it's class exclusive.

It does but its not enough, we have too much down time.

[Delsus]

The idea behind mages (paticularly THM/BLM) is that you manage MP, they deliver spike damage, if you want to go all out then expect alot of downtime. In FFXI when I played SCH my MP would last maybe 4 or 5 nukes and I would be resting (if I didnt use stratagems which was rare).

This is designed so you choose when to use combos not to spam them and cry when you are struggling with MP, If they give THM/BLM unlimited MP (which from your post is what you are asking for) then the only DoW people will use is a tank because THM/BLM will do alot more damage than melee.

Unlimited MP {Thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass} it takes all skill out of playing mages, remember abyssea and how that ended up with giving mages unlimited MP? anyone could play mages after and just spam spells and do a good job.

[ApplePie]

The idea behind mages (paticularly THM/BLM) is that you manage MP, they deliver spike damage, if you want to go all out then expect alot of downtime. In FFXI when I played SCH my MP would last maybe 4 or 5 nukes and I would be resting (if I didnt use stratagems which was rare).

This is designed so you choose when to use combos not to spam them and cry when you are struggling with MP, If they give THM/BLM unlimited MP (which from your post is what you are asking for) then the only DoW people will use is a tank because THM/BLM will do alot more damage than melee.

Unlimited MP {Thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass} it takes all skill out of playing mages, remember abyssea and how that ended up with giving mages unlimited MP? anyone could play mages after and just spam spells and do a good job.

Yeah, and how many stratagems does SCH get? How many of them are MP Management? How many do we get for MP Management on THM/BLM one for now, and then another during 1.21. THM deals generally 20k less damage per moogle fight (if you want to retort how your thm is doing 50bajillion damage per moogle, then you are taking too long fyi), I can sometimes come within 15k on archer. I'm usually top damage on archer (not bragging, qqmoarpls).

With the fact that as a player, you have to deal with other players during content, it is highly likely you will need to move and be active. This further decreases the MP management skills a THM can get. THM just needs to get an ability like "Spirit Bound"- allows full MP recovery sustained from not moving while moving.

As it is right now, THM isn't complete. Getting one extra MP ability isn't going to complete THM. BRD refresh better be godly or THM will still be semi-useless besides blizzara/high spike damage on melee monsters (followed by 5 minutes of trying to find a spot where KING, MRD, GLA, or THF won't hit you and steal all your MP because of the terrific server delays/aoe so you have to constantly move and rely on 3-MP a tick auto-refresh).

THM is such a joke; I just sit in a corner during moogle and watch TV while I wait for my MP to come back. Great immersion going on there! /inb4whiteknight /inb4troll /inb4etc

[Anon]

The idea behind mages (paticularly THM/BLM) is that you manage MP, they deliver spike damage, if you want to go all out then expect alot of downtime. In FFXI when I played SCH my MP would last maybe 4 or 5 nukes and I would be resting (if I didnt use stratagems which was rare).

This is designed so you choose when to use combos not to spam them and cry when you are struggling with MP, If they give THM/BLM unlimited MP (which from your post is what you are asking for) then the only DoW people will use is a tank because THM/BLM will do alot more damage than melee.

Unlimited MP {Thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass} it takes all skill out of playing mages, remember abyssea and how that ended up with giving mages unlimited MP? anyone could play mages after and just spam spells and do a good job.

Have you ever played a game that's not ffxi? the mages have nearly unlimited mp it keeps players from being bored. TP users get to spam combos it's not fair mages can't do the same. By what logic would they do a lot more? it should be about the same (still have down time where TP users do not) and if it's not the nearly the same it can be reduced but I guess you prefer archer only pts like now or lancer only pts like patch 1.20. Also unlimited mp is an exaggeration with the proposed fixed you'd still have huge down time, but it would come later than 3 combos as the game currently stands. (assuming your not using any other spells)

THM is such a joke; I just sit in a corner during moogle and watch TV while I wait for my MP to come back. Great immersion going on there! /inb4whiteknight /inb4troll /inb4etc

Exactly how I feel about the moogle fight. ><