The Warrior of Light is not tempered by Hydaelyn.

[QT_Melon]

It is a common trope but I would like to think better of XIV's writers than to throw it out there completely out of nowhere, considering we have seen nothing indicating Hydaelyn is anything less than good.

I am not so inclined to agree. I am not saying she is a mustache twirler, but expelling a part of an existence off the notion of the opposition desired "more power"? That is jumping the gun and ended up breaking the world, leaving us in the state we are now. Fragmented.

What exactly did that entail? Shouldn't we ask the specifics?

Well meaning? Sure. But the road to hell is always paved...

Let's think on this of I get what is laying down the Primal Hydaelyn is our concept of how a god should be, letting us have free will and giving us a blessing to banish the wrongs or darkness. It allows us to believe we are in the right and the absolute. I mean you got God or the Will of the Planet behind you and it has done acts that have helped you and you believe you are doing right to the Will.

You believe that Jesus is our savior, you aren't that militia destroying those that don't believe in Christ but you still believe that your cause and faith in Jesus is correct. You are going to heaven, the rest who don't are going to hell.

Your faith allows you to sin and atone, because you have free will. You might reject Christ and maybe find HIM later...

The Christ you workship is your ideal of Christ, there may or may not be a different being of an Actual Christ.

That's my theory anyways, it could be something else but I think that's what makes her as the Will so interesting and multifaceted. She isn't intended to be bad... and that's why we believe in her so much.

[Yshnal]

If Hydaelyn was truly "evil" or doing something wrong, or if she wasn't necessary for the world, one would think that a being like Midgardsormr wouldn't have sworn to serve her. Unless he's actually tempered or has some ulterior motives, which he has never shown us so far.

I think that neither Hydaelyn nor Zodiark themselves can be adhered to being good or evil, nor I think that they have bad motives for what they do themselves. They simply do what they believe is the best to protect their children, and we've seen that they might be able to make mistakes. Like the current situation in the First, as I highly doubt that Hydaelyn wasn't aware of what was happening there. It's just that she wasn't aware that it was a bad thing until she saw what the WoDs had done to stop it, until she understood their pain through them, us, and Minfilia. I think that that made her understand that it, a flood of light, wasn't truly right. Similarly, I believe that perhaps Zodiark made similar mistakes in the past, without noticing the damage that he was doing, and that was was made Hydaelyn banish him.

My guess is that eventually we'll make both "gods" to see that they need each other -to listen to and understand their different thoughts in order to find balance- to prevent hurting their children. Perhaps that will make them become a single being once again, if that ever existed for real.

[Yshnal]

To elaborate a bit more on what I said, I think that by default Hydaelyn sees light as benign and darkness as malign, and Zodiark sees it the other way around. But due to their own nature and affinities neither of them realize that having one without the other, or too much of one of them, is what causes issues. That's why I think that they need an outside source to understand that fact, like it happened with the situation on the First, and why they'll need to come to terms with each other if we want to sort this out on the long term. Because I think that, primals or not, they're a natural part of the world and we need them to exist.

[Theodric]

To be fair, Midgardsormr isn't native to Hydaelyn and was ultimately concerned with finding a place where he could allow his brood to exist in relative peace. In large part due to Omega pursuing him across the universe.

[QT_Melon]

To elaborate a bit more on what I said, I think that by default Hydaelyn sees light as benign and darkness as malign, and Zodiark sees it the other way around. But due to their own nature and affinities neither of them realize that having one without the other, or too much of one of them, is what causes issues. That's why I think that they need an outside source to understand that fact, like it happened with the situation on the First, and why they'll need to come to terms with each other if we want to sort this out on the long term.

They've had an outside source, that being mankind. I know we're supposed to be the champions ...but that's exactly what the First were too.

Because I think that, primals or not, they're a natural part of the world and we need them to exist.

Being primals actually kind of questions the necessity. Depending on how this plays out. Were they a necessity to a much younger world? If the theory is that they are the oldest primals from the thoughts of mankind trying to explain the origin. They aren't necessary. That is IF that's where they originated from. They aren't natural either.

[Yshnal]

To be fair, Midgardsormr isn't native to Hydaelyn and was ultimately concerned with finding a place where he could allow his brood to exist in relative peace. In large part due to Omega pursuing him across the universe.

I know. But Hydaelyn did nothing to stop Omega. It was us the ones that ultimately confronted and defeated it, and knowing uncle Middy he would have told us if there was something wrong with the mothercrystal herself. Yet what he shown us that worried him was us when we met. Why would he care so much if Hydaelyn wasn't necessary for the planet?

They've had an outside source, that being mankind. I know we're supposed to be the champions ...but that's exactly what the First were too.

Yes, but both us and the WoDs did what we thought was right by pushing the light and defeating darkness on our worlds. But in the end we've seen that it can cause as much damage as having too much darkness would. Once we realized it, due to our connection with Hydaelyn, or perhaps Minfilia's, she finally is able to see and understand that too much light is bad, that it's causing pain and suffering to her children, and that's when she decided to try to help.

Being primals actually kind of questions the necessity. Depending on how this plays out. Were they a necessity to a much younger world? If the theory is that they are the oldest primals from the thoughts of mankind trying to explain the origin. They aren't necessary. That is IF that's where they originated from. They aren't natural either.

I see primals similar to natural elements like rains, fires, tornadoes, etc. They're a natural part of the world and serve a purpose, yet too much of any can be terrible. For example, natural caused fires are alright and have existed since the beginning of the world, yet it's when man causes more of them that they do serious damage to nature's balance.

In the same way we've seen that primals can be summoned with not actual ritual in place, just by sheer faith and necessity from people or creatures, so it's safe to assume that that's something natural that has happened since forever (with Hydaelyn and Zodiark being actually the will of the planet itself). The problem is when someone (ascians) comes in and starts influencing that cycle, causing primals to be summoned "artificially".

[RopeDrink]

"If you'd know the truth we would be on the same side."

I took this as more of a reference to the balance itself. For our world to remain as it is, a balance of some description is needed. Being an Ascian, he may very well have a slight bias towards Zodiark, much like the WotMother would no doubt favour Hyde, yet both seem to operate in terms of the balance rather than Hyde or Zodi primarily. As such, we (up until then) haven't really had reason to regard the balance, at least not up until the WoD quest-line where we got living, breathing examples of why one side winning outright is bad-news-bears. After that, yes, we would have been at least slightly more receptive to treating with someone like Elidibus, but by then we had done so much goody-goody that his next step to readdress the problem is killing us outright (but the above comment came way before these events last I remember).

I wager it'll be different once ShB starts now that he can see us becoming WoD's to help with the balance problem. The issue is whether Solus or Elidibus serve as the agent (and we can guess who based on the trailer). I fear Elidibus will likely meet a rather nasty end at the hands of a certain not-really-an-elezan with the Resonant.

[QT_Melon]

They're a natural part of the world and serve a purpose, yet too much of any can be terrible. For example, natural caused fires are alright and have existed since the beginning of the world, yet it's when man causes more of them that they do serious damage to nature's balance.

You seem to be missing the major iisues why a primal is a problem.

Primals need to exist by using up Aether which in turn destroys the planet.



Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ure-of-Ascians

Being a likeable Primal doesn't negate the problem. This has nothing to do with rituals, this has to do with basically "climate change" you can ignore it and just assume a future generation is going to deal with it or actually work on the problem. Similar concept of saving the planet in many FFs before this one. Questioning faith, another similar theme in prior FFs.



This is my theory or at least connecting the dots on what's going on so far.

Hydaelyn (the will) who speaks with us is a Primal
Hydaelyn Primal IS NOT Hydaelyn the planet

Elidibus in the trailer mentions BOTH Zodiark and Hydaelyn are primals

Elidibus also mentions One True God (and says that's Zodiark).

Elidibus also appears to have a different endgame that isn't the same as the other Ascians.

So it's possible that he sees Zodiark differently than the Ascians ie the ones the Ascians follow are a primal but the one Elidibus thinks of is not the same...(which may be a different primal vision of Zodiark) much like how there were different incarnations of Titan and maybe why that scene was important to note with Ga Bu's summoning of Titan (it reiterates how primals work and depending on the summon, it's not the same one).

Of course Hydaelyn and Zodiark being the oldest of them (if we are to believe Elidibus) does bring into question why it was seemingly forgotten long ago, and why the 12 became a more ...popular mode of worship? It may have something to do with the split or that Hydaelyn as the Will is more benign and people wanted to worship something that ...may have more impact on their fates? (At least what the people believed to have more impact)

[Anonymoose]

As far as the Elidibus reference goes, his exact words:

Elidibus
Lahabrea is wrong about a great many things. The Echo is indeed a gift─albeit one you have yet to master.

Minfilia
And if we did?

Elidibus
There would be no strife between our peoples─for we would be of one mind.

Igeyorhm
Lahabrea! It is time!

Lahabrea
Very well. Let us show these mortals the true power of the Echo...
The power to break down the barriers of existence!

Igeyorhm
I am become you...

Lahabrea
...And we are become one.

Ascian Prime
Come, mortals! Render up your souls, that Lord Zodiark might be reborn!

<...>

Lahabrea
Aaargh!!!
What walls are these? Arrrgh! Damn you, Hydaelyn!

The Lahabrea Praetorium rant has always been an interesting anomaly, but if Solus is right about Hydaelyn then he is also right about Zodiark, yes? Then is it not strange that Lahabrea's rant is about how the way to cure the planet from being destroyed by Hydaelyn (a primal) is the return of Zodiark, the one true god (also a primal)?

Though the cave art mural has the idea that Zodiark was born first and Hydaelyn came into being and they shared the sea for a time gnawing away at me.

[ObsidianFire]

Though the cave art mural has the idea that Zodiark was born first and Hydaelyn came into being and they shared the sea for a time gnawing away at me.

I question what the correct "order" to read the paintings in is. Or if it's even "history" to begin with and is more a diagram of how Hydaelyn and Zodiark were formed.

When I saw that the order was "Zodiark---Zodiark/Hydaleyn---Hydaelyn" I thought it was symmetrical and looked an a lot like the way someone would draw a diagram of the Sundering. Not a history of the Sundering mind you, but a diagram of the Sundering. So the order of how events occurred wouldn't be accurate, but the overall effect of how the situation ended up would be. Think a flow-chart shaped like a "V" that has one idea in the center of it and then the ideas that come from that idea split off to the sides.

It's tricky because we see it as the camera pans left-to-right, so I think that is probably influencing the order people are reading it in. It's also very likely we haven't seen the entire mural either. Like... Hydaelyn knows Zodiark hates her children so how does she know that? We see the Zodiark figure in the dungeon trailer burning people and I am very curious to see if Hydaelyn has a corresponding mural that depicts her doing something else...