The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[Mixt]

Aye, the key word is "usually".

The majority groups don't mind one bit if a tank isn't pulling wall to wall as long as the pace is reasonably smooth. If a healer feels they can handle far more, there's nothing wrong with requesting the tank pulls bigger packs. It might even be a learning experience. If the tank is hostile towards this or doesn't communicate, it's fair to kick them. Similarly it's fine to kick a dps who pulls more than a tank or healer can handle without communicating and reacts with hostility.

I imagine the argument in the thread is that half the posters are imagining those nightmare runs with hostile dps and terrible healers running around wildly and wiping the group and hurling abuse at the tank before kicking them and interpreting the comments here as "that's good, it should be like that".

Just communicate with your group, be willing to do your best and learn and 99% of the time you'll be fine.

Yes this, exactly that.

Some healers and DPS are just...ugh, and then they hurl abuse at the tank over things they themselves caused.

[GetFoesReqd]

Hmm. My approach is usually this: If I'm tanking, and someone pulls aggro by accident, of course I grab it. If they managed to get it from me, then I grab it, and often apologize. It is not hard to get or keep aggro as a tank, and if I lost it, its basically my bad.

BUT. If someone else intentionally pulls a group we're not fighting without even saying anything, it is disrespectful. Yeah, tanking is easy. Yeah I could grab them off. And, the first time, I do. And then I explain that if they want to pull again, they will have to deal with it. They could have asked me to go faster. They could have talked to me. But if they can't be bothered to just treat me like a human and speak to me, then I don't really care if they get mad or kick me. I'm a tank, I have an instant requeue. It's the shrug heard 'round the world at that point. But there's no excuse for being rude when you could take 10 seconds to ask if the tank will go faster before taking their job on yourself. ^_^

[Averax]

I will now quote the ancient texts.

If thou should'st spanketh it
Thou will'st tanketh it.

[kazzel120]

Hmm. My approach is usually this: If I'm tanking, and someone pulls aggro by accident, of course I grab it. If they managed to get it from me, then I grab it, and often apologize. It is not hard to get or keep aggro as a tank, and if I lost it, its basically my bad.

BUT. If someone else intentionally pulls a group we're not fighting without even saying anything, it is disrespectful. Yeah, tanking is easy. Yeah I could grab them off. And, the first time, I do. And then I explain that if they want to pull again, they will have to deal with it. They could have asked me to go faster. They could have talked to me. But if they can't be bothered to just treat me like a human and speak to me, then I don't really care if they get mad or kick me. I'm a tank, I have an instant requeue. It's the shrug heard 'round the world at that point. But there's no excuse for being rude when you could take 10 seconds to ask if the tank will go faster before taking their job on yourself. ^_^

Well said as a tank main myself all of this is exactly how i feel if you can't ask me to go faster then i won't.

Now as a wall to wall puller after i have become familiar with the area and the DPS or Healer are bad and i have to slow my pulls and they decide they want to pull more they can tank it and if they wipe the group its on them not me.

[disturbedcobra]

The one key thing needed for all roles, not only tanks. "Communication." We can't expect to know if the DPS and healer are good enough to take on multiple mobs. Not every healer can handle them. Not every DPS is capable of producing enough AOE DPS to kill large mobs fast enough. It all comes down to conversation. The most basic form of tool taught to us since early in our lives. As a main tank myself, I always ask when I join a pug if they are good with large pulls. You never know unless you ask.

[galbsadi]

Honestly, it depends on the content, depends on the tank (assuming I'm healing, since I'm a healer main and usually am).

If a tank knows how to use their CDs...the system often won't let you pull more than I can handle in post-50 content (and especially in lv50/60/70 dungeons). If they don't...then they can pull according to their skill level, and IDGAF either way.

Now, that said, I pretty much never pull for a tank (unless it's one I know and they know I'm doing it)...and if a DPS does, my rule is this: first time, I'll save 'em. If it's clearly an accident, I'll save 'em.

If they're doing it just because they're non-communicating impatient people? I will let them die.

[thegreatonemal]

Well said as a tank main myself all of this is exactly how i feel if you can't ask me to go faster then i won't.

Now as a wall to wall puller after i have become familiar with the area and the DPS or Healer are bad and i have to slow my pulls and they decide they want to pull more they can tank it and if they wipe the group its on them not me.

Why do we even have to ask. The way the two of you talk you clearly understand how to hold aggro so why aren't you pulling wall to wall. Why do I need to ask you to do your job to your upmost so I can do mine. if anyone is disrespectful its the two of you.

[OrangeCrystarium]

Tanks can't always pull wall to wall, why is that so hard to understand? There are a few factors that determine how much a tank can pull, like the gear of the healer and the DPS (I'm pretty sure I don't even need to elaborate on this point, it's common sense), plus the tank's knowledge of the dungeon. I've been in dungeons where I couldn't rely on the healer to support me and yet they insisted on doing mass pulls, with DPS trying to grab more mobs for me. The fact that this kind of behaviour is encouraged is one of the reasons why you don't see many tanks in the game anymore. I see people in this thread saying that every player's needs and fun are in equal consideration, then if so, the tank is also due the same respect in kind.

[Mixt]

Nah, that would be consistent.

After all, hypocrisy is the name of the game.

"Everyone's enjoyment matters...unless it's the tank, screw them lol"

"Work harder slave! *Whips tank*"

"Stop dying to the healer not being able to keep up with incoming damage! Everything is your fault tank! Even if you did nothing wrong it's still your fault because we say so!"

[Hezzlocks]

I've played through this game twice, once as healer and once as dps, and I've a fair bit of experience tanking in WoW, back in BC and WotLK mostly, though oddly so far I don't feel comfortable trying my hand at tanking in FF14 for reasons I can't quite put my finger on, but the concept isn't terribly different.

With all this in mind my attitude is... hey, man, I don't care, do whatever makes you comfortable. I'll just go with the flow. As long as you don't get us killed it's all good, and if you do get us killed, more than likely I'll just have a little laugh and /comfort you.

Maybe I'm just lucky but most of the time I find most other people in ff14 are the same, going easy on obvious newcomers and either letting them go at their own pace or giving them helpful advice or encouragement. Of course, I have seen a few impatient idiots, including one dragoon in Castrum Meridianum who decided to pull everything between the 2nd and 3rd boss himself, died, and spazzed out a bit, despite the fact that both tanks AND healers were sprouts and clearly first timers... but thats the exception for me, not the norm.

As for is it ok for dps or heals to pull? Usually no, not unless it helps the tank somehow or has some kind of advantage. Accidental pulls are fine, we've all done it, just so long as they aren't doing it constantly and deliberately. It's fine to peel a stray mob off the healer and deliver it to the tank. It's fine to get enmity on some ranged mob the tank is having trouble pulling in (mostly in ARR dungeons, hell I keep blank shot on my bars for situations like this) to help reposition it, or peel a mob away that needs to be separated if one tank is dead, like in Bismark. Things like the above is helpful and can make the run smoother. What isn't helpful is running around pulling everything and make the tank chase mobs around desperately trying to get emnity on them all so the healer doesn't throw out one cure and get absolutely destroyed.