Dear Healers who don't DPS

[ForteNightshade]

"Emnity management is a group responsibility". Cos tank is too busy being in DPS stance and dps'ing? And btw is it true that in SHB SE gonna remove that waste-of-space DD role action for reduced emnity generation. Hope it is.

Yes, only because tank stance lost its damage penalty. Therefore, it's no longer a near 50% damage loss to sit in tank stance because the DPS are too lazy to press a oGCD that doesn't impact their rotation one bit. If you can't be bothered to press Diversion, why should I bother saving you from the tank buster?

"Because it's your job!" Except you're interrupting my playstyle~

''HP management is a group responsibility'' . Yeah sure, let tanks and DD survive just by potions cos healer is too busy dps'ing.

Okay. Friends and I did Ghimlyt Dark without a healer. I still did every mass pull and spot healed with Steel Cyclone. Expert dungeons are so pitifully weak, a non-DPSing healer is actually useless.

"Mitigation is a group responsibility". On this i'm 50/50. Thing is if everyone has skills to reduce damage taken, they require less healing and that's not a good thing, therefore such skills should be removed from game, cos it breaks balance and that's why we now have such nonsense as 'healer should dps' going on.

You do realize this makes tanks even more glorified DPS who only pop CDs when a buster comes out, yes? While I do think the mitigation tools available has become excessive. Taking them away entirely dumbs down tank gameplay. The better solution is to increase outgoing damage and/or nerf healing potencies. You achieve the same results without neutering tank responsibility to accomplish it.

"DPS is a group responsibility". In ultimate/savage/ex content sure, cos it's only really possible with static groups and these fights have such an absurd dps checks. But for normal content tanks nor healers shouldn't feel preasure to dps. Unless you want to speedrun, but then feel free to make your own group with like-minded people.

Translation: Tanks and healers can be lazy while DPS have to utilize their full kits. As we established, Expert dungeons hit like wet noodles. Why do healers have an excuse to AFK and watch Netflix yet if I only pressed 123 on Dragoon, I'd be called out for it?

"But it's your job to do damage!" And it's your job to benefit the party in whatever manner you can, either through healing or damage. If you get to only utilize half your kit, I'll do the same.

What the OP—in a two year old thread that is ironically quite relevant—has shown is responsible for an efficient run of any content falls onto everyone. And no one person should think themselves above another that they can skate by half-asking it. I am not going to spend an extra 10+ minutes in a dungeon because you want to watch Netflix or Youtube. How is that in any way considerate?

I completely disagree. I do agree the Aggro management is everyone's responsibility but not because the tanks drop stance. Some tanks can't hold aggro against really good DPS even while in stance. You mentioned that every player should have the responsibility to heal. In my opinion that's probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read Because if a DPS is healing that is a humongous DPS drop for the entire group. And a Healer is not going to out DPS a DPS class. Your own arguments tells us why healer should stick to healing and wide DPS should stick to DPS and tanks should stay in stance and keep aggro.

Except we aren't talking about bad tanks who have no idea how to play their job. Unless they are extremely undergeared, aggro won't be an issue for a decent tank... provided the DPS press an ability which does not impact their rotation whatsoever. Why should I spam Butcher's Block or Power Slash several times because Mr. Samurai can't be bothered to hit Diversion? More often than not, I'll be either riding very closely to said Samurai's damage or outright surpassing it.

Fortunately, this is a non-issue now since tank stance has no penalty and aggro management is basically nonexistent.

[Kabooa]

Translation: Tanks and healers can be lazy while DPS have to utilize their full kits. As we established, Expert dungeons hit like wet noodles. Why do healers have an excuse to AFK and watch Netflix yet if I only pressed 123 on Dragoon, I'd be called out for it?

Because it's an expert dungeon, and as you established, they're jokes and no one cares.

[Deceptus]

Okay. Friends and I did Ghimlyt Dark without a healer. I still did every mass pull and spot healed with Steel Cyclone. Expert dungeons are so pitifully weak, a non-DPSing healer is actually useless.

You do realize this makes tanks even more glorified DPS who only pop CDs when a buster comes out, yes? While I do think the mitigation tools available has become excessive. Taking them away entirely dumbs down tank gameplay. The better solution is to increase outgoing damage and/or nerf healing potencies. You achieve the same results without neutering tank responsibility to accomplish it.

My group had a tank rage quit right before the second boss of The Burn ( he didn't want to stand in Assylum healing circle). Myself, a Dragoon, and Ninja proceeded to 3 man the 2nd boss, and clear all the trash to the last boss before another tank joined.

You're absolutely right though. Tanks are basically just another DPS with more armor and HP.

ShadowBringer will apparently drastically reduce tank aoe sustain(steel cyclone and Abyssal Drain) on mass pulls so that should slow things down considerably.

[ForteNightshade]

Because it's an expert dungeon, and as you established, they're jokes and no one cares.

Except this attitude doesn't simply stay in dungeons. Regardless, while I may not care enough to outright kick someone. I'm not going to defend their poor performance either.

My group had a tank rage quit right before the second boss of The Burn ( he didn't want to stand in Assylum healing circle). Myself, a Dragoon, and Ninja proceeded to 3 man the 2nd boss, and clear all the trash to the last boss before another tank joined.

You're absolutely right though. Tanks are basically just another DPS with more armor and HP.

ShadowBringer will apparently drastically reduce tank aoe sustain(steel cyclone and Abyssal Drain) on mass pulls so that should slow things down considerably.

Sounds about right. Even in dungeons, things like this shouldn't be possible. Ironically, the most fun I had healing is when a DRK tried to troll then insta-left during Kugane Castle. I had to heal my friend (she was on BRD). Funny enough, I actually had to balance healing and DPS. Was actually fun.

I'm a bit disappointed by that, especially with Abyssal Drain. It doesn't surprise me though. What DRK and WAR could get away was absurd.

[Semirhage]

I think we can agree that while healer damage may be getting more boring, utility is getting a crunch, and we're not getting changes our jobs need, at least that's a month away. The worst thing to happen so far is pumping energy back into the ludicrous Sylphie subpopulation that insists leveling content in this game is a high-skill deathtrap despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.

[EaMett]

I've seen a lot of people post about struggling on the Zenos solo.. so you know.. I can see people struggling on pretty much anything.

[WaxSw]

Emnity management is a group responsibility
HP management is a group responsibility
Mitigation is a group responsibility
DPS is a group responsibility

Anybody saying "I only want to <x>" just tells me they are lazy and selfish.

I wish I could "like!" this comment more than once

[Aranel34]

Thank you and well said. Attitude is everything =).

[SaberMaxwell]

If you're talking about some static savage group, then I guess that's ok. In pre-made groups feel free to do whatever you like. But if you're talking about random groups, your expectations are absurd.

lul absurd.

"Emnity management is a group responsibility". Cos tank is too busy being in DPS stance and dps'ing? And btw is it true that in SHB SE gonna remove that waste-of-space DD role action for reduced emnity generation. Hope it is.

It's absurd to expect Damage Dealers to push a button that drops their enmity generation by 90% to aid the tank in doing damage. Your words, not mine; you're saying it's absurd to expect Damage Dealers to push one button.

''HP management is a group responsibility'' . Yeah sure, let tanks and DD survive just by potions cos healer is too busy dps'ing.

Not standing in avoidable AoEs is its own form of HP management. Bloodbath, vercure, second wind, mantra...all abilities that likewise help the healer stabilize the group so that healers can keep DPSing.

But it's absurd, your implication, to expect people to look at an AoE and think "Maybe I shouldn't stand in that."

"Mitigation is a group responsibility". On this i'm 50/50. Thing is if everyone has skills to reduce damage taken, they require less healing and that's not a good thing, therefore such skills should be removed from game, cos it breaks balance and that's why we now have such nonsense as 'healer should dps' going on.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I think it's a great thing that healers and damage dealers can participate in mitigative strategies, and help keep damage from being overwhelming. It doesn't break any balance at all besides whatever poor-defined balance you bring up.

"DPS is a group responsibility". In ultimate/savage/ex content sure, cos it's only really possible with static groups and these fights have such an absurd dps checks. But for normal content tanks nor healers shouldn't feel preasure to dps. Unless you want to speedrun, but then feel free to make your own group with like-minded people.

Same to you; feel free to make your own "Tanks only tank healers only heal dps only dps" group in party finder.

Mitigation is a finite job. Healing is a finite job. Both end when everyone is stable; the job of damage only ends when the boss is dead and the fight is over. Everyone wants the fight to be over. Damage is everyone's job; some content is just far more lax about asking that of players.

Generally all your statement in general shows you'd like to throw tank/healer/dps roles out of window completely and have every job do everything. Hope that'll never happen.

Sorry I want the team to work together as a team, to cover each others' weaknesses and bolster each others' strengths. You want the team to be narrowly defined it seems, and each section is their own private little duo/quadro that works independently of the other roles, trusting them to do their job while they brainlessly pluck away at their predefined "role."

The only truth changing in Shadowbringers is "Enmity is everyone's job." That's only changing because the developers agree with you, and are changing aggro to be an absolute joke with tanks having free aggro generation at a whim. HP management will still be the group's responsibility; abilities like addle and mantra still exist as well, so mitigation and healing support will still be group's responsibility. Bosses still need to die and everyone can still contribute damage, so damage will still be the group's responsibility.

[Seoulstar]

Oh gods, this is still going on..can we just give this a rest already. It's literally going in a full circle.