Gunbreaker issues to fix from Media Tour.

[Lyth]

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Right now, invulns are much too powerful. Over the course of a ten minute period, you can probably knock out four to five tankbusters with invulns alone. Even if you're faced with a tankbuster every minute, you're still left with a massive surplus of cooldowns.

Also, because invulns generally get reserved for tankbusters, recast trumps everything else. It doesn't matter that Superbolide and Hallowed prevent damage. Holmgang has half the recast, and double the uses per fight.

If tankbusters and say, certain mechanics (like the o6s stack) simply penetrate through the invuln, you're now forced to ration out your cooldown rotation. It actually becomes important to know how much damage a tankbuster does so that you can hit the right safety threshold, as opposed to alternating between invuln and supercooldown.

That doesn't necessarily mean that invulns will become useless. You could still use them outside of tankbusters or on things like cleaves to reduce the load on your healer. It also creates an interesting trade-off - you might have the likes of Holmgang up on a shorter recast, but you might not as readily find places to use it over something that simply prevents damage. So now the trade-off between "preventing damage" and "shorter recast" actually becomes meaningful.

Besides, it would be great if, on the first raid tier this expansion, tanks lazily pop Holm into the first tankbuster, only to get wrecked. Let's learn how to mitigate again. I daresay that the promise of having to come up with a mitigation strategy is what got some of us into this role in the first place.

[Rox_Unlimited]

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I feel like your really only targeting holmgang. Anyway I don’t think it’s a lack of people knowing how to mitigate because you can’t invuln every single tank buster in a fight. In O10S you could get off at most 3 Holmgangs and 1 HG before you hit enrage and the boss uses tank busters almost back to back in his last phase on top of putting a debuff where only one tank can have him. Even with invulns if the same tank got marked twice, they are probably out of cooldowns or don’t have strong enough ones to eat it without party help. Yes, Holmgang and HG are the strongest invulns because one is usable often and the other makes you immune. They are super cooldowns for a reason. Living dead and Superbolide are the weakest due to their draw backs. YoshiP even said it’s because HG May be too strong. Yes, they would not be completely “useless” but with a long cooldown and an effect that doesn’t make you unkillable would be no different than a more glorified and longer cooldown sentinel/vengeance/shadowall/nebula. They would still be sued in the same effectiveness of mitigating a tankbuster. What’s so different than using a holmgang to live or popping a holmgang that doesn’t make you immune but makes you take less damage? You still will live and need healing afterwards. They’re are instances were specifically HG can be used to completely SKIP mechanics (O11S stand in corner ignore entire pantokrator 2). Changing them from making you invincible will do absolutely nothing because they will still be used the same way in mitigating a tank buster. Knowing that you can mitigate 2 tank busters and reserve your weaker cooldowns for the others IS knowing how to mitigate. They are meant to be strong and they are not going to be changed.

[Lyth]

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I should of clarified my terminology. "Supercooldown" means that you blow most or all of your non-invuln cooldowns to mitigate something. The term originated from the Akh Morn strategy from T13: Shared (Supercooldown)/Holm + Cover/Shared (Supercooldown)/Hallowed/Shared (Super + Holm). When you're running a cooldown surplus, you don't actually need to know anything about tankbuster damage, and you can pretty much pop everything. If the fight forces you to ration it out, however, you need to make decisions about which cooldowns to pair together in order to reach a safe threshold.

O10S is a bit different because the fight doesn't let you swap out until it decides you can. So you're not dealing with a pooled set of tank cooldowns. The overarching principle still stands, though. Shorter recast invulns and cooldowns make your life easier.

What made Hallowed historically very powerful was the fact that it used to prevent the application of certain debuffs (such as vulnerability stacks). This allowed you to reset your vuln stacks in order to solo tank something. In practice, fights generally don't allow this and I haven't seen this being an issue since mid-Heavensward. Most tanks now will tell you that recast trumps everything else. There's really one thing that makes Holmgang broken: it's the recast. It's half (or less than half) the recast of SB and Hallowed allowing double the uses, and nearly half the recast of LD despite having none of the drawbacks of the ability. There shouldn't be any tank invulns on a shorter recast than 5 minutes. A three minute recast invuln is simply dumb and is the main reason why mitigation in this game is trivial. And the way that Holmgang is, especially after its buff this expansion which removed its "drawback" - it needs to be on a lot longer recast than LD barring a similar rework.

Yoshi-p's comment about Hallowed just reflects a lack of understanding of the role. That's also the reason why we need a battle system designer who specifically designs tanks and understands what makes them tick, as opposed to four people trying to design five roles and 17 jobs. Nobody is equally good at everything. Being extremely knowledgeable in one area often comes at the expense of being ignorant in others. That's why we specialise.