The reason we healers DPS

[AxlStream]

Guys cmon, even healers have to respect the ABC. Always Be Casting. If you aint casting, you aint contributing.

[CazzT]

That is not the answer to my questions and is in no point related to them.

I will ask you again, this time simplified: Are you okay with a player just using a skill every now and then?

I did answer your question. You asked an irrelevant and rather asinine question in relation to this topic. With RDM being the only exception, DPS don't have heal spells they are expected to use, and even RDM is not expected to do so in regular content. The topic is about healers doing things that outside their role. During transition phases, RDM is not expected to heal. But there's this silly expectation of healers do things outside their role. That answers your question that isn't relevant to the topic.

[CazzT]

The exclusion of healer DPS, especially in casual content, is more analogous to a melee refusing to use their combos that to subtle aspects of optimization.

Except it's not. That's still part of the DPS role. DPSing is not part of the Healer role. If it was, the role would not be Healer, the role would be DPS or Support.

Being literally idle

This assumption really is old. When someone who is playing Healer says they don't always DPS, there's this overreaction of "omg teh healer doesn't dps at alls!!!!!"

or actively wasting MP is no more forgivable for a Healer than for a Tank or DPS.

It can easily be argued that using DPS skills as a Healer is wasting MP on skills that are not Healing.

It doesn't matter if it's casual, Savage, or anything in between.

But it does matter.

If you wouldn't be okay with DPS neglecting their Abilities (toolkit), taking breaks mid fight (idle time), and/or standing in stuff (wasting healer MP and by extension, further time), why would possibly forgive what amounts to the same in healers alone? That is a massive double-standard.

Except it's not a double standard. DPS are there to do damage. Healer is there to heal. It's not a double standard to expect DPS to do damage while not expecting Healer to also do damage. Healer is not DPS thus it's not expected.

Using your logic, and the logic of "healers should DPS", Tanks and DPS should be expected to heal as tanks and tank and heal as DPS. No one expects either to do those things. In fact, it's not uncommon for tanks and DPS to get yelled at when they try to do something outside their role. If you want to see a double standard, there's your double standard.

[Skivvy]

Using your logic, and the logic of "healers should DPS", Tanks and DPS should be expected to heal as tanks and tank and heal as DPS. No one expects either to do those things. In fact, it's not uncommon for tanks and DPS to get yelled at when they try to do something outside their role. If you want to see a double standard, there's your double standard.

A player should use the various skills in their toolkit when it would be beneficial to the group as a whole. Refusing to use certain skills because "it doesn't fit what I think this role should do" is not a good excuse.

[CazzT]

A player should use the various skills in their toolkit when it would be beneficial to the group as a whole. Refusing to use certain skills because "it doesn't fit what I think this role should do" is not a good excuse.

Then what's the poor excuse for DPS not tanking? What's the poor excuse for Tanks not healing?

[Skivvy]

Then what's the poor excuse for DPS not tanking? What's the poor excuse for Tanks not healing?

Because a DPS playing as a DPS is more beneficial to the group most of the time. A tank tanking is more beneficial to the group most of the time. Are you intentionally being pedantic?

As a healer, we currently have an incredibe amount of time where healing is not required. Would the party be better served by sitting there idling doing nothing, or perhaps using some of those DPS skills that are included with the job?

To expand on RDM (as it was brought up a few posts ago) - Most of their time should be spent DPSing, however if a clutch-heal or a raise can help save the party or prevent a wipe, they should most definitely use it. If they refuse on the grounds of "I am not a healer, I should not have to heal", then they're a pretty poor excuse for a RDM.

[CazzT]

Because a DPS playing as a DPS is more beneficial to the group most of the time. A tank tanking is more beneficial to the group most of the time.

Then a Healer playing as Healer is more beneficial to the group. You just exposed the double standard in this entire discussion.

You also made an interesting point. "most of the time". So what are DPS doing when they're not DPSing? What are Tanks doing when they're not Tanking, most especially for one tank content?

Are you intentionally being pedantic?

Are you being intentionally insulting?

[braxberry]

Then what's the poor excuse for DPS not tanking? What's the poor excuse for Tanks not healing?

Did you ever hear about a DRG strat that replaced a tank back when they had... Foresight? Or the new GNB skill that does some healing or shielding or whatever? Or alllll of the new healing effects that jobs are getting, in general, in the expansion? Everyone is contributing to everything; and healers shouldn't be exempt from this idea.

[Skivvy]

Then a Healer playing as Healer is more beneficial to the group. You just exposed the double standard in this entire discussion.

Are you being intentionally insulting?

There is no double-standard. A healer has A LOT of downtime. Yes, a healer's top priority should be keeping the party alive and healthy, but when that is done you move onto your secondary skills (DPS).

And if you find me insulting, that is your own problem. You're either being incredibly obtuse on purpose, or perhaps there is just no point in continuing this conversation with you.

[Zsplash]

I think this is the only mmorpg I've seen where a healer is expected to make dps a primary role, other games have dps on healers but even then it tends to fall off by max level to being mostly useless (because they need dps to level but not do dungeons/raids). If there's not enough to heal then that's a difficulty issue that needs addressed, because if you have that amount of free-time then the healing isn't challenging.

Fall into difficult conversations from there because even now I see healers struggle while others can dps, personally I think healing is just too easy in ffxiv and some just have trouble which is understandable.