The reason we healers DPS

[CazzT]

A player should use the various skills in their toolkit when it would be beneficial to the group as a whole. Refusing to use certain skills because "it doesn't fit what I think this role should do" is not a good excuse.

Then what's the poor excuse for DPS not tanking? What's the poor excuse for Tanks not healing?

[Skivvy]

Then what's the poor excuse for DPS not tanking? What's the poor excuse for Tanks not healing?

Because a DPS playing as a DPS is more beneficial to the group most of the time. A tank tanking is more beneficial to the group most of the time. Are you intentionally being pedantic?

As a healer, we currently have an incredibe amount of time where healing is not required. Would the party be better served by sitting there idling doing nothing, or perhaps using some of those DPS skills that are included with the job?

To expand on RDM (as it was brought up a few posts ago) - Most of their time should be spent DPSing, however if a clutch-heal or a raise can help save the party or prevent a wipe, they should most definitely use it. If they refuse on the grounds of "I am not a healer, I should not have to heal", then they're a pretty poor excuse for a RDM.

[CazzT]

Because a DPS playing as a DPS is more beneficial to the group most of the time. A tank tanking is more beneficial to the group most of the time.

Then a Healer playing as Healer is more beneficial to the group. You just exposed the double standard in this entire discussion.

You also made an interesting point. "most of the time". So what are DPS doing when they're not DPSing? What are Tanks doing when they're not Tanking, most especially for one tank content?

Are you intentionally being pedantic?

Are you being intentionally insulting?

[Skivvy]

Then a Healer playing as Healer is more beneficial to the group. You just exposed the double standard in this entire discussion.

Are you being intentionally insulting?

There is no double-standard. A healer has A LOT of downtime. Yes, a healer's top priority should be keeping the party alive and healthy, but when that is done you move onto your secondary skills (DPS).

And if you find me insulting, that is your own problem. You're either being incredibly obtuse on purpose, or perhaps there is just no point in continuing this conversation with you.

[CazzT]

There is no double-standard. A healer has A LOT of downtime. Yes, a healer's top priority should be keeping the party alive and healthy, but when that is done you move onto your secondary skills (DPS).

And if you find me insulting, that is your own problem. You're either being incredibly obtuse on purpose, or perhaps there is just no point in continuing this conversation with you.

It is a double standard to expect one role to do non-role actions but not expecting any other role to do the same. That is the very definition of double standard.

Double standard: a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

You're being insulting by throwing insults. It's not my problem when you're the problem.

[WaterShield]

It is a double standard to expect one role to do non-role actions but not expecting any other role to do the same. That is the very definition of double standard.

Double standard: a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

You're being insulting by throwing insults. It's not my problem when you're the problem.

Let's make this as simple as it can possibly be. You have a healer only pressing buttons to heal and nothing else. They then sit idle for 70% of the time as no heals are needed during that time. According to you that's A-OK.

You have a DPS player. They only use attack skills 30% of the time and then sit idle touching nothing 70% of the time. But that's not ok because they aren't doing their job? Why not? The boss will eventually die. They are still dodging the bad stuff and everything plus they do occasionally hit buttons.

You have a Tank player. They only use enmity generating skills and then stand still doing nothing. They only ever use enmity skills as needed from that point to prevent monster / boss from eating the healers face. They are performing their role of Tanking but making sure that the dungeon takes as long as possible. Why is this not ok too?

All three scenarios show people in different roles putting out Abysmal performances. They are all putting in equal effort to one another. But why do you insist that only the Healer should be excused? It's ludicrous that people defend laziness because of worshiping a green icon.

[CazzT]

As a healer, we currently have an incredibe amount of time where healing is not required. Would the party be better served by sitting there idling doing nothing, or perhaps using some of those DPS skills that are included with the job?

I'm not arguing that Healers should never DPS. There seems to be a misunderstanding there. I'm pointing out that it should not be expected, even that it's a double standard to expect it of Healers and not expect non-role actions from DPS and Tanks.

To expand on RDM (as it was brought up a few posts ago) - Most of their time should be spent DPSing, however if a clutch-heal or a raise can help save the party or prevent a wipe, they should most definitely use it.

I agree. And it's one of the rare cases where a DPS is expected to do something outside their role. But this is an exception to the rule (as the saying goes).

Something I haven't mentioned before now, because I have no doubt that it will result in "then why are you arguing", is that I do DPS on my healers. I'm pretty sure people think, because I'm saying Healers should not be expected to, that I'm not. And nowhere have I given the impression that I don't. I have said I play Healer to chill and relax, not to DPS. That is not saying I don't DPS on Healer, but I'm pretty sure that's how it was misinterpreted.

If a Healer is DPSing, cool deal. But expecting them to while not expecting DPS to tank or Tanks to heal is hypocritical.

[Urthdigger]

If a Healer is DPSing, cool deal. But expecting them to while not expecting DPS to tank or Tanks to heal is hypocritical.

I swear you're deliberately being thick. The difference between tanking/healing and DPS, is that tanking and healing are jobs that can be finished. When the party is topped off, or enmity cemented, there is literally no reason to keep healing or increasing enmity. On the contrary, there is ALWAYS a need for more DPS until the fight is finished. A DPS doing those jobs is silly because they're choosing to put down a task that's important to keep up the whole fight to pick up a task that will be finished by someone in a GCD or two.

Heck, if we REALLY want to split hairs, any time a DPS uses Diversion, Lucid Dreaming, or even ninja's Shadewalker, they're helping with tanking. Same goes for using Feint or Addle. A DPS using Second Wind or Bloodbath, or a Warrior using Steel Cyclone on a large pack are helping with healing. Hell, I've tanked expert roulette bosses with no healer through Storm's Path and Inner Beast alone to keep myself up. So long as it doesn't interfere with their primary function (So, if it's an oGCD for DPS, once hate is cemented for tanks, once the party is healed for healers) they are fully expected to assist with other roles. Tanks and healers are just the ones to use their GCDs to help with another role (DPS) because their primary roles are possible to be done with, at least for a little while.

To flip that around a bit, excusing healers to sit around idle the majority of the fight when tanks and DPS should not is hypocritical.

[supaiku]

If a Healer is DPSing, cool deal. But expecting them to while not expecting DPS to tank or Tanks to heal is hypocritical.

It's not hypocritical. It's hypocritical for some healers to expect they can be special snowflakes staying around waiting for the tanks and the dps to complete the duty for them.
You first and foremost signed in to complete what ever duty you queued up for. It's everyones responsibility to do the best they are capable of and finish this duty.
So as a healer you heal to make sure your party stays alive and in times where no healing is required you do damage.
It's not ok for the tanks and the dps to do nothing, it shouldn't be ok for the healer to do nothing (unless they are completely new to the healer role / the game).
It's also disrespectful towards your teammates to let them do all the work while the healer watches netflix or whatever they are doing in their downtime.

[Aurturia]

Then what's the poor excuse for DPS not tanking? What's the poor excuse for Tanks not healing?

You know a good dps will generally try to pull mobs off a healer if they managed to get agro which basically means tanking them and all party members contribute to healing by mitigating and avoiding incoming damage to reduce the overall amount of healing needed. A tank barrier is no different from an adlo afterall.