The 'unwritten rule' for non-tank pulls in dungeons

[SoulEchelon]

Isn't this thread about dungeons? Last I checked that was a primaral. Are you telling me if a tank goes afk or leaves a dungeon your group simply waits around for a new tank? Normally what I do is just pull one group at a time while the group waits for a replacement.

You stated ANY normal content. Shinryu Normal is normal content. In fact, it's story content. But sure I'll let you backpedal. The Stone Vigil? Aurum Vale? Keeper of the Lake? The Vault? Baelsar's Wall? Shisui of the Violet Tides? Ala Mhigo? Ooh, The Burn would be a GREAT one for dps tanking.

Go. Do them. Post a video. Make sure to go all the way through, including all the bosses. Don't wuss out and use Titan Egi. That's a tank, and according to you - you don't need them. Now if by some insane chance you actually are able to do it, tell us how long it took and how many extremely carefully planned battles you had to do, as well as every single time a tank buster bashed your face in and wiped your party.

No, you're not going to do that because you're wrong. A tank is needed just like every other part of the holy trinity. A dps can tank a few mods with a good healer. They cannot tank a whole entire dungeon - bosses and all.

[Awha]

You stated ANY normal content. Shinryu Normal is normal content. In fact, it's story content. But sure I'll let you backpedal. The Stone Vigil? Aurum Vale? Keeper of the Lake? The Vault? Baelsar's Wall? Shisui of the Violet Tides? Ala Mhigo? Ooh, The Burn would be a GREAT one for dps tanking.

Go. Do them. Post a video. Make sure to go all the way through, including all the bosses. Don't wuss out and use Titan Egi. That's a tank, and according to you - you don't need them. Now if by some insane chance you actually are able to do it, tell us how long it took and how many extremely carefully planned battles you had to do, as well as every single time a tank buster bashed your face in and wiped your party.

No, you're not going to do that because you're wrong. A tank is needed just like every other part of the holy trinity. A dps can tank a few mods with a good healer. They cannot tank a whole entire dungeon - bosses and all.

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

Also sorry given the thread was about dungeons I figured it was implied that is the content we would be referring to. I do not think I ever said it would be quicker just that a tank doing single pulls is a gimped dps, and one could argue that it would be quicker to just bring a 3rd dps.

I tank and as in have said before doing single pulls makes me feels useless I mean during single pulls you do not even need to use cooldowns all that much. One can sit in tank stance for days.

[Hash_Browns]

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

Found myself in more then one situation where the tank left/disconnected during the dungeon, and a DPS became a tank until the tank either returned or we got a new one.

Tanking as a DPS isn't hard in leveling dungeons at all.

If a tank can't pull more then a few packs of mobs, then they might as well be a DPS.

[Kaylessa]

Tanking as a DPS isn't hard in leveling dungeons at all.

Depends which leveling dungeon we're talking about. Some are really easy, but some are Aurum Vale where despite the best intentions the party will sometimes accidentally pull half the first room and get obliterated ... even with a sturdy tank and healer :P

[SoulEchelon]

I do not know how to capture video content, but a dps or healer can tank a dungeon I am sure many healers have found themselves in situations were the tank is simply afk deadweight and they had aggro for the entire run. Sure it requires extra healing but it is not impossible.

Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.

[Hash_Browns]

Heh. Yep, I thought so. You're a broken record and you can't even back yourself up. What a waste of time talking to you.


I'll reiterate for everyone else and get back on topic: Every single role is important. ALL of them. DPS, Healer, and Tank. We all depend on each other, and if one isn't pulling their weight, we all suffer. DPS? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and tank. Healer? The run goes slower and taxes the tank and dps. Tank? The run goes slower and taxes the healer and dps. The name of the game is cooperation. Tank is supposed to aggro. Let them aggro. DPS is supposed to do damage. Let them damage. Healer is supposed to heal. Let them heal. When everyone works together we all benefit. Running in front of the tank and grabbing aggro is not working together. If you're impatient or feel you can go faster, ask first. If the tank refuses, leave or deal with it. It's the same as the tank asking dps to do more aoes. If they refuse, either he/she should leave or deal with it. Breaking the mold without warning just leads to frustration and potential loss of time.

Funny thing is - this is all coming from a DPS main. Don't be dick. Follow the tank's lead and let them get punched while you do the punching. That's what they're there for.

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

[Vahlnir]

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

If they are being detrimental to the group's progress (not being able beat a boss due to failed mechanics or a lack of tanking, wiping the group repeatedly on groups of trash due to a lack of skill or possible trolling, etc) a kick is justified because the group literally can't progress because of the individual. If they are simply being slow...not really able to kick them without risking punishment from a GM. That leaves 2 possibilities, as the person you replied to already mentioned: leave or deal with it.

[linay]

if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons

I guess I'll change to a lalafell if I ever tank.

[SoulEchelon]

I'm sorry, but if a tank can't pull their weight in normal dungeons, I'm not going to leave - I'm going to remove the tank.

Then good luck with the tank queue. It's a rare proc, and this current negative mentality towards tanks is the exact reason why.

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

[Hash_Browns]

Then good luck with the tank queue. It's a rare proc, and this current negative mentality towards tanks is the exact reason why.

Edit: I would instead propose working with the tank if by chance (as Vahlnir stated above) they're having trouble with the mechanics of a dungeon. That probably means they're either new to the dungeon or a new tank. Being instantly negative and demanding them to be kicked isn't motivation. It's detrimental, and could potentially lead to one less tank and quite possibly, one less player. We should be working together, not hurting each other. But hey - gotta get through that dungeon in 10 minutes flat or everyone but you sucks and deserves to be banned from ever playing with you again, right?

I mean, yes the queues are great for me. So I have no problem with it being a rare(ish) role.