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  1. #161
    Player
    Freyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    The Goblet 1-42
    Posts
    633
    Character
    Rabbit Ackerman
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Shurrikhan View Post
    I far more often die because a healer refused to dps than because they refused to heal.

    With my CDs, healing against a multi-pack pull can be sustained off oGCDs and HoTs/Eos alone for a significant duration.
    But, once the CDs run out, no amount of GCD spam is going to keep me alive if no enemies have yet died.
    By healing excessively, you denied us enough damage to survive the pull by denying kills before the CDs-covered period expires.
    You, by not understanding the actual impact of your toolkit whilst clinging to a fanciful mandate of your "role", have killed me.
    Exactly what I'm talking about. In these scenarios the DPS can be blamed if they don't use AoE's or the tank can be blamed if they don't use CD's. But if they're putting forth the effort then the healers should be putting forth the proper effort as well.
    (9)

  2. #162
    Player
    Anselmet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    444
    Character
    Laurent Vestra
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by GrimGale View Post
    Please stop being obssessed with healer dps. You people need to understand healers don't want to specifically dps. Any healer that likes healing, is in there to contribute to the party. Keeping people alive contributes to the party.

    But standing idly by while others kill mobs is not contributing. Healing in FFXIV is not always needed. Damage doesn't come in a steady stream so healing doesn't need to be applied in a steady stream. There is a lot of healing downtime and so healers want something to do to fill that downtime.
    As much as I love the idea of having debuffs on sch (we once had that pre sb) and ast being a buffer, (se is clearly moving away from this too) its just not gonna happen. At the top of my head sch used to have heavy on miasma ii and virus. May have had more at one time but as the years go by my memory gets fuzzier. We lost that in sb. They made chain stratagem weaker to lessen raid utility in classes in an attempt to break the meta which leads me to ast suggestion. They've already messed with their cards and other classes with raid buffs for shadowbringers so its really clear that se won't allow a buffer. So if they don't want us to buff or debuff that just leaves the option for dps as a thing to do when not healing. Like I am fully onboard with your suggestions, but se clearly hates the idea.
    (1)

  3. #163
    Player
    Fyce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Character
    Fyce Alvey
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    I'm calling my fellow tanks: if healers want to play the piano, do them a favor and pull everything you see. Avoid using cooldowns too. Help your healer avoid boredom!
    And to DPS: try standing in AoEs from time to time. Your healer will thank you for saving them from having to do their DPS "rotation" and actually make them use their healing kit to its fullest.

    Don't worry, we are here for you.
    (5)

  4. #164
    Player
    Aomine1992's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    829
    Character
    Daiki Sejuro
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 80
    Lol 18pages later....this is the cleric stance debacle all over again just in a new light. My opinion is I don't care what the healer is doing but it contradicts my "always be casting" mentality for any caster. I couldn't just heal I would die lol so I would say at least try to weave a little dps in there till you're comfortable with it.

    90% of healers who don't dps I agree are lazy but that 10% just arnt comfortable enough with the role to just auto pilot those mobs but it doesn't excuse them from at least trying.
    (0)

  5. #165
    Player
    Gemina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Dravania
    Posts
    5,778
    Character
    Gemina Lunarian
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyce View Post
    I'm calling my fellow tanks: if healers want to play the piano, do them a favor and pull everything you see. Avoid using cooldowns too. Help your healer avoid boredom!
    And to DPS: try standing in AoEs from time to time. Your healer will thank you for saving them from having to do their DPS "rotation" and actually make them use their healing kit to its fullest.

    Don't worry, we are here for you.
    Such a snide comment. Do this while I am in your party and not only will I not cast a single offensive spell, I won't cast any restorative ones either so hate isn't transferred over to me the moment you start tanking the floor.

    You're missing the point entirely, and I don't really know how this has evolved into a discussion where we gather all the heals only healers and start stomping on them. Healers in general don't have a problem DPSing during their downtime. The problem is how much downtime there is, and the healing that is required can be taken care of with HoTs and ogcds. There is no doubt that if SE wants healers to be healers, then they are going to have to up the healing requirement to the point that healers will have to use GCDs on heals. They are going to have to stop allowing for ilv sync to be double that of which is feasible to clear the content. They are going to have to change up encounter design.

    If they are worried that players can't handle the increased requirement, then they either need to grow a pair and just do it, or embrace the current aggressive healing culture and replace GCD heals with more offensive tools.
    (18)

  6. #166
    Player
    Fyce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,755
    Character
    Fyce Alvey
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemina View Post
    Such a snide comment. Do this while I am in your party and not only will I not cast a single offensive spell, I won't cast any restorative ones either so hate isn't transferred over to me the moment you start tanking the floor.

    You're missing the point entirely, and I don't really know how this has evolved into a discussion where we gather all the heals only healers and start stomping on them. Healers in general don't have a problem DPSing during their downtime. The problem is how much downtime there is, and the healing that is required can be taken care of with HoTs and ogcds. There is no doubt that if SE wants healers to be healers, then they are going to have to up the healing requirement to the point that healers will have to use GCDs on heals. They are going to have to stop allowing for ilv sync to be double that of which is feasible to clear the content. They are going to have to change up encounter design.

    If they are worried that players can't handle the increased requirement, then they either need to grow a pair and just do it, or embrace the current aggressive healing culture and replace GCD heals with more offensive tools.


    If tanks had armor as dense as some people in these forums, healers would never need to heal.
    (2)
    Last edited by Fyce; 06-13-2019 at 11:58 AM.

  7. #167
    Player
    Jollyy5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    424
    Character
    Raul Prower
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 71
    OP speaks to my heart, liked.
    (1)

  8. #168
    Player
    Mimilu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    3,990
    Character
    Mimiji Miji
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitoo View Post
    Nice, then i am better healer then you then as dsp by that logic, right?
    some advanced mental gymnastics going on here
    Mitigation isn't healing though, it just lowers the amount of damage done to the tank/party, which lessens the need for healing... >w>
    (2)

  9. #169
    Player
    Deceptus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    The Goblet - 16th Ward, Plot 55
    Posts
    4,418
    Character
    Deceptus Keelon
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyce View Post


    If tanks had armor as dense as some people in these forums, healers would never need to heal.
    When you can't attack the argument, attack the person clearly.
    (13)
    Veteran healers don't care if we need to heal, but right now we don't. We want interesting things to do during the downtime other than a 30s dot and a single filler spell that hasn't changed from lvl 4 to lvl 90.
    Dead DPS do no DPS. Raised DPS do 25/50% lower DPS. Do the mechanics and don't stand in bad stuff.
    Other games expect basic competence, FFXIV is pleasantly surprised by it. Other games have toxic elitism. FFXIV has toxic casualism.[/LIST]

  10. #170
    Player
    GrimGale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,112
    Character
    Grim Gaelasch
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Funny enough, if mechanics didn't end up insta killing DPSs, healers would probably be busy healing DPS players willingly skipping mechanics in order to maximize their dps. That would make good healers directly improve DPS by allowing DPS to simply stand in the fire and blast away instead of losing damage by moving around.
    (0)

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