So.... will it still be worth it?

[Eloah]

Oh I know this. It's about having more Aetherflow charges than we really know what to do with at this stage. The new Sacred Soil is going to see quite some use unless things change. Indom is still an absolute powerhouse and Excog is as good as ever. Using these abilities isn't going to carry quite the same potency loss as it did prior and Dissipation is just going to further fuel them now that that doesn't carry anything like as much of a penalty as it did prior. SCH is going to be packing absurd amounts of oGCD healing and I fully expect to see the likes of Momo abusing this hard for speed kills if the next tier allows it.

But that still makes no sense. Why would we need more Aetherflow to us on abilities that Dissipation doesn't effect, especially since we don't have a sink anymore. Granted people are gonna wanna find some use so they can refresh Aetherflow for MP, but it's still would count as over healing or just be a straight up waste. And Why would we use it during "down time" if we have down time we'd wanna help with DPS, not kill the source of our oGCD heals.

Aetherflow is sorta like Assize, both WHM and SCH wanna use them once they are off CD. Both provided MP regen, heals, and damage, but Aetherflow lost its damage output. At least when we had Energy Drain people could see uses for Dissipation for extra damage or as a way to regain a lot of MP very quickly. But now that small bit is gone.

A truly experienced SCH never used it as the OH SHITE button it was probably intended to be, because if it got to that point there were other issues. And a good SCH new how to quickly regain HP in a snap; and admittedly having Largesse helped, because it didn't kill the fairy. Most used it for DPS, or quick bursts of justified healing in rapid succession as needed, in times planned out situations. But honestly, when I did remember it was there I just used it for burst DPS on farms, like the light farm from A1S. I really hope they can see, all other changes aside, Dissipation was disliked practically from day 1.

[Sebazy]

Ok lets slow down a little bit. Whilst I openly admit that I'm theory crafting arguably beyond my remit at this stage. I do think that you're misunderstanding the angle I'm coming from though.

But that still makes no sense. Why would we need more Aetherflow to us on abilities that Dissipation doesn't effect

First and foremost. Let's take that 20% healing magic bonus, put it in a box, put a big padlock on said box and then bury it under the sofa. It is a niche that I'm not interested in here. Please stop instantly discrediting my thoughts just because you think that I've misread a tooltip. I'm interested in the extra Aetherflow charges. In no way am I factoring in the healing bonus.

Thanks <3

And Why would we use it during "down time" if we have down time we'd wanna help with DPS, not kill the source of our oGCD heals.

I don't follow. This is about maximising oGCD heals during mechanical downtime. Not when no damage is coming in. This is about pushing towards allowing both healers to use near 100% GCD uptime on DPS in a situation where significant damage is still coming in but mechanics forcing movement aren't. Do you remember how hard Kefka's auto attacks were in Savage? This is probably the clearest example of what I'm talking about.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's going to be the next thin air. Rather, I think it has quite a bit more potential for min maxers and speed runs now. The penalty for using it isn't anything like as severe as it was before. A big caveat I should mention here is the cooldown on abilities. We're at the point where the big 3 (indom, soil and excog) will all be on cooldown. Will a handful of Lustrates be enough to save a few GCDs for the co healer to throw more rocks? If so? Yay profit! If not, then boo. Disipate goes to being an intermission ability.

Again, I'll hold my hands up and admit that I could be wrong. Fairy scaling is very tough to predict with the way that levelling up actually scales the fairy down if iLvl remains constant. It could end up more powerful at 80 than the preview gameplay suggests, but it could also end up even weaker.

[Ceasaria]

For the fairy, there we have to manage her for : Fey Union | No Fey Union (Embrace, Whispering Down, Rouse, etc).
In 5.0, there will be more phases : Fey Union | No Fey Union (Embrace...) | Seraph | Dissipation.
Dissipation will not be used principly because of 20% bonus healing, but because of 3 free aetherflow stack which will be worth in exchange of the 150 potency of Embrace (It not the case actually with the 250 potency).
Because today exchange free healing for dps, is a bit risky and not necessarily a gain (because we will have to heal in compensation maybe).
But, exchange low heals for strong heals, this is different.

[EaMett]

Current dissipation is/was a pain because it meant losing out on embrace for 30s and having to spend a 3s cast summoning the fairy again. Because of this you would need to make up for that loss before even seeing the upside.
Of course you would also use it when your skills were on cooldown and that won't change much because seraph skills share the same cooldown.

New dissipation has these fixed. Embrace was nerfed, the fairy comes back automatically. That's a lot less to make up for before seeing gains. The only reason we can't be completely happy about this is that we no longer have an AF dump and the AF skills we do have are on 30 and 45s cooldowns (short of lustrate). In practice this means that if things stay as they are (I'm still hoping for ED back before the raid tier) you at least have a few lustrates to spam. I have a sneaking suspicion tank damage will be more sustained than in SB so that's an extra opportunity to save healing GCDs on tanks.
This is not as powerful as if ED were still part of the kit but it's a little better than the current iteration (and much better if ED becomes a thing again). It will however still stay situational and probably only used for some min/max fine tuning, so sadly not that accessible to the common folk which seemed like the theme this expansion.

[Eloah]

.Please stop instantly discrediting my thoughts just because you think that I've misread a tooltip. I'm interested in the extra Aetherflow charges. In no way am I factoring in the healing bonus

I am not trying to instantly discredit you, nor did I ever indicate you misread the tool tip. I'm merely pointing out why Dissipation is as "unliked" as it is. You are right we don't know how things will line up come Shadowbringers. But SE has had 4 years to fix Dissipation, and it took them that long to just add the effect of resummoning the fairy. One of the main issues is how Dissipation divides our kit. even with the Aetherflow stacks we lose the fairy as 1/3 of our kit, and if we blow through those stacks we lose another 1/3, leaving us with only 1/3 of our kit to rely upon. Yes the 20% bonus supports that part of our kit, but its not enough to fill in he gaps when 2/3s are missing. Trust me, no one who is arguing about Dissipation is even really taking the 20% buff into consideration at the moment. The main issue now is the main use most SCHs found for it is being taken away from us. Dissipation is that one skill, that every job has, that has a use, but the use sucks, but the community found another use for it, but always wished SE would change it. Hey they finally removed One Ilm Punch, and sorta fixed Freeze. But SE is taking away the use we found and sorta wants to force us to use it as intended, which at the moment doesn't work.

I am not trying to discredit you, or saying anything negative about your opinion. I am only stating that experienced SCH are taking everything into consideration, and the outcome they are getting is, the skill is still broken.

[Sebazy]

<snip>

It's all good <3. It's a good thing to have insightful discussion about how some of these changes will interact with other as it's often the little overlooked details that can push things over a particular tipping point.

Personally, I think you're over estimating the power of the fairy relative to a Soil+Excog combo for that 20 seconds, particularly if it can get combo'd with a WHM's Asylum. Of course this all hinges on that not being required to pad up a spread adlo which is almost guaranteed to be a thing during early progression now.

It's really quite a strange situation to be in. Trivial content is quickly going to get dull as dishwater as a healer. However, early progression in Savage should actually be pretty exciting assuming that SE deliver on the difficulty and take advantage of the lack of Vit melds.

[Lola_bunny]

Maybe someone who is more familiar with SCH can tell me but if the new fairy can't take damage then it should stand to reason it has no impact on mechanics, like splitting damage, so placement outside of being in range for casts is pointless or is there other reasons placement, other than just following you, is desirable

[Hanayumi]

Maybe someone who is more familiar with SCH can tell me but if the new fairy can't take damage then it should stand to reason it has no impact on mechanics, like splitting damage, so placement outside of being in range for casts is pointless or is there other reasons placement, other than just following you, is desirable

Not sure what your question is exactly, but yes, new pets shouldnt be affected by anything cc. Now the current embrace has a cast so if they are following they have to they either stop to cast it or move to catch up to you before casting, so it was usually best to place them, however all pet skills will be instant in shb so then you dont really have to place your pet anywhere really...

[Hanayumi]

As for dissipation I think its going to be pretty useless, especially if they didnt change it so it works on all your heals, the shb description we know at the moment (subject to change) is still the same one we have now so looking like it'll still just affect spells. The loss of energy drain and with fairies getting more abilities, aoe heal and seraph, I really dont see a reason to use dissipation even with the auto resummon... not sure what they can do to it that isnt a major change.

Another thing im curious about is the new adlo effect and deployment... the new adlo has 2 separate shields for when it crits, so 1 for the regular heal (galvanize) and the other for the crit (Catalyze), however deployment still show it only works on the galvanize does that imply it wont actually deploy the double shield? If so kinda feels like a nerf as well then...

[althenawhm]

Yes, Critlo was intentionally nerfed, especially with that crit heal on demand skill.