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  1. #1
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    (Also, in response to a prior poster claiming that damage is also binary, that is not the case. While the result is "Enemy is alive" or "Enemy is dead" and thus binary, dealing damage is not. The more damage you deal, the more damage you deal and the faster the enemy dies.
    This scales infinitely, up until you have enough damage to kill the enemy in a single attack. With Enmity, it doesn't matter if you're 1 point above everyone else or 1,000,000 points above everyone else, the enemy will still be attacking you.
    Thus once you generate enough enmity to maintain a lead over everyone else, more enmity generation is literally useless as it won't do a thing)
    Probably being the prior poster you're talking about, I've presented a system where enmity would not just be "enemy is attacking you" and thus not binary anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    Enmity has simply never been an interesting or engaging mechanic. Even "Fun" tools to manipulate it (Such as Tricks of the Trade/Trick Attack) were simply just damage buffs that diverted enmity but where often redundant for their enmity generation outside of maybe making pulls easier.
    Except that Trick Attack was better paired with Sneak Attack for another damage buff, that required hitting the back of the target. Problem is that pairing the two would result in massive damage and massive hate spike so that if the tank didn't know how to manage enmity (That would decay overtime), you'd take the risk of killing a DPS, or the stragery would be for the tank to purposefully lose aggro to the DPS for a short time so that the Thief could hit the back of the ennemy while being in the tank's back too...So your capacity as generating enmity would actually affect how your team would perform.
    (1)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 06-06-2019 at 09:45 PM.
    Y: I usually compare FFXIV with a theme park, but the Forbidden Land of Eureka won’t be a place where everyone would want to go. For example, there are people who don’t want to go to horror houses because they don’t see the point in getting scared on purpose. For example, on a date, the boyfriend might want to invite the girlfriend to go the horror house, but the girlfriend just doesn’t seem to find it fun. In other words, it’s not like everyone wants to go to the horror house, but there are people who just love the adrenalin rush they get from it. Think of Eureka as something like that.

  2. #2
    Player
    Kalise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,784
    Character
    Kalise Relanah
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    Probably being the prior poster you're talking about, I've presented a system where enmity would not just be "enemy is attacking you" and thus not binary anymore.
    Except that your "solution" doesn't really do anything about enmity control, other than make it so that Tanks simply spam out enmity 24/7 because it will provide the largest boost in rDPS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Argyle_Darkheart View Post
    The fact of the matter is that enmity is currently managed. That it's to the point where tanks almost never use their enmity combo isn't really the point. Enmity isn't something you can ignore in its entirety, nor is it something you have to constantly monitor.
    It isn't managed though. Unless pressing Diversion on CD is "Managing enmity" since the other mentioned actions are done anyway. Circle-shirking happens when tank swaps happen anyway and people pop Lucid/Refresh for MP on CD anyway.

    Outside of pressing Diversion on CD, no-one actually gives a damn about enmity because it's a non-factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitoo View Post
    true pottery ~
    I like the part where you disregard other words in the post. Including the very next sentence.

    You know, the part where I state:

    "Thus once you generate enough enmity to maintain a lead over everyone else, more enmity generation is literally useless as it won't do a thing)"


    Which is literally in the quote you provided.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Argyle_Darkheart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    542
    Character
    Argyle Darkheart
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    It isn't managed though. Unless pressing Diversion on CD is "Managing enmity" since the other mentioned actions are done anyway. Circle-shirking happens when tank swaps happen anyway and people pop Lucid/Refresh for MP on CD anyway.

    Outside of pressing Diversion on CD, no-one actually gives a damn about enmity because it's a non-factor.
    Serious question, have you done any of the Savage content this expansion, or either of the Ultimate encounters?

    Enmity isn't as much of a non-issue as you would like to paint it; I can only guess why you're so insistent that it is.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    Except that your "solution" doesn't really do anything about enmity control, other than make it so that Tanks simply spam out enmity 24/7 because it will provide the largest boost in rDPS.
    Not necessarily. Depending on how Floors are calculated or how enmity tools work, you could switch between optimizing Enmity or DPS.
    For example, let's imagine that the effect of Provoke is to put you at the beginning of the next floor.
    • If you know you won't be able to generate enough enmity to reach that next floor by yourself by the time Provoke is available, you'd better do your DPS rotation, then use Provoke, and start buiding enmity from that next floor.
    • On the other hand, if you have some skills that would allow you to reach that floor by yourself, you'd keep your enmity rotation, and only use Provoke once you reach the next floor, thus gaining two floors at the same time.

    It's still a bit raw, but I'm pretty sure you could polish this kind of mechanics to make enmity more engaging.
    (2)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 06-06-2019 at 10:19 PM.