QOL change for War for ShB - Onslaught - No not asking for removal of gauge cost

[illumy]

drk in stormblood was the least underwhelming but now it's war, they really need to make equal presentation to all classes

[NyneSwordz]

Thanks to animation delays, in the time it takes to hit tomahawk > infuriate > onslaught, you can just as easily walk up to whatever you're trying to rush to.


Why make it so complex? Personally, I'd just change it to "Onslaught costs no rage when not in combat".

Yeah you're right. Should just make it free outside of combat. Much less complex.

[Lyth]

Shake didn't need to be changed. DRK was in a similar situation in terms of raid-wide mitigation. Plenty of jobs, including DRK and PLD, had abilities that were introduced purely for flavour. Most people were happy to get a mostly useful suite of abilities. You were the only group of players who felt that you deserved more than the rest of us. The discussion of utility vs. dps in Stormblood was a lie. WAR mains wanted to claim that a disadvantage in "utility" entitled them to the highest dps. They became the best of both worlds. And more often than not, when we raised issues about ongoing problems about things like Living Dead, you were the ones to shout us down. It's still happening, in fact - you just need to look a few threads over.

If Onslaught is on a 10 second recast, then it's even more powerful. That kind of recast literally means on demand. So it would be even more silly to give up this kind of a recast advantage just to remove the gauge cost.

The charge system doesn't refresh two charges every 15 seconds. Otherwise they'd just set the recast at 15 seconds. It just acts as a storage reservoir for further uses. It just means that you aren't penalised as much for holding your gap closer for the next knockback mechanic. But it introduces other issues, such as the need to reserve a double gap closer for raid buffs. So there are a couple of places where this is going to become significantly more complex. At least with Onslaught, you don't have to think about it. Ungabunga up? Go right ahead and use it.

And we all have our rights to express our feelings in here. WAR mains certainly have the right to demand that WAR gain an even bigger advantage over the other tanks. But the rest of the tanking community, too, has the right to directly tell you what our feelings are on that. Especially if you missed the atmosphere in the room before.

[NyneSwordz]

drk in stormblood was the least underwhelming but now it's war, they really need to make equal presentation to all classes

I think they have. Or have tried to. All the tanks look pretty fun. People complain about homogenization, but I think this is part of their effort to make all the tanks perform equally. At least they've stated as much.

To that end, I don't see why they can't just make Onslaught like all the other tank gap closers.

Just make it a role action imo.

Or, just make onslaught free outside of combat. That's all I ask. Wouldn't affect balance at all, probably easy to do, and would just make the action more of a pleasure to use and increase it's usage - at least in some corners/content.

[Kalise]

Most of the issue non-warriors are having with warriors calling for changes on Onslaught is partly due to jealousy.

Then grow up.

That's an extremely childish reaction to something. "Oh, someone has something they don't like about a job I hate with a fiery passion, better go whinge and moan in any thread they make (Instead of putting time and effort into you know... Asking for the buffs and QoL changes for your preferred job)"

With the revamp of the tank jobs, many were hoping for other tanks to get their chance in the spotlight, but it's not leaning that way.

It looks very much like Paladin is going to be king of the Tanks at this stage. With OP Sheltron, still having more party support thanks to Cover and Passage of Arms (Even with Cover's nerf so it costs Gauge) and a slew of buffs to its damage capabilities.

With Warrior literally only being in the meta because of Holmgang and that's it.

Gunbreaker might be relevant if its currently noted potency issues are fixed. Dark has a few problems that need to be addressed though...

Warrior has a drawback with their gap closer... it's a decision-making mechanic. Do you want to do more dps or do you want to gtfo of the AoE that's about to hit you? Many -- myself included -- see this as someone who has everything handed to them asking for more. This is ONE drawback for Warrior.

You say as the Paladin main, who's literally getting everything handed to you. Gap closer? Yep. No more Flash? Yep. More damage? Yep. Better AoE? Yep. Better pulling capability? Yep. Better Stance system? Yep.

Literally everything Paladins have been asking for an more, is coming their way.

Then you have the gall to get pissy when Warrior players speak out about a bass ackwards design in the consistency of their Gap Closer vs all other Tanks (Bearing in mind, PLD, DRK and GNB all have the exact same skill for their gap closer, only Warrior has something different. For reasons that boggle the mind)

With all the talk about SE's limited resources and how x can't happen because of funding and such, how can one justify making this "QoL" change for Warrior when there are other tanks that could use the attention?

Where exactly have you read that players are wanting this issue looked at OVER AND ABOVE changes to other jobs?

Most, if not all Warriors agree that Dark Knight needs some love, especially for Living Dead. Many (If not all) agree that Gunbreaker could use some love based on the media tour data.

I haven't seen anyone saying that changes to Onslaught need to be done as priority number 1 of all things in the game... And no, just mentioning it does not imply that.

I'm not saying you're unjustified in your request... rather, at this juncture, it's perceived as taking a mile when given an inch.

That's on you.

This is supposed to be a "QoL" change. It's touted as a "QoL" change. You know what gets prioritized over "QoL" changes? Everything. Literally everything has higher priority than QoL changes.

Since QoL changes aren't necessary, hence the name "Quality of Life". It merely improves the player experience by making things smoother and/or more convenient.

Lastly, this wouldn't be a QoL change for Warrior... a QoL change would be "changing the price of all items of the same type you have up on the market board at once." This would be an actual gameplay change. It would take away the entire decision making process from using Onslaught, leaving to free access, while the Beast Gauge is used solely for Fell Cleave.

You clearly haven't read either the title of the thread or the post itself. You just saw "War" and decided to piss and moan about WAR favouritism, literally right before an expansion that looks to be catering to Paladins the most out of ANY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME. Like, most other DPS jobs (Devs seemingly preferred role) are getting shit compared to what Paladin is getting (See: Monks and Machinists whom are getting absolute garbage, as well as jobs like RDM/BLM/BRD/NIN/DRG whom are dissapointed with how little they're getting)

If you had bothered to read the post, the OP is simply asking for the ability to open up a fight with a gauge-less Onslaught. With its in combat usage still requiring Gauge.

[Xtrasweettea]

[...]

Don’t mind me, I am just sipping on my Earl Grey tea, while sitting in an extremely comfortable chair, next to the fireplace going full blaze, with the AC running full blast in June because I am a WAR main and my privilege allows me so.

Took me and my fellow WAR mains all SB expansion to convince SE to give us more stuff. It took some flowery words and botched numbers to show that WARs needed some “fixes.” Top DPS and top mitigation is what we got. Now look at us: we are on top of the world.

Of course, we had to… uh, “get some help” by one influencer (very powerful man, I am surprised he isn’t running SE’s PR department) to make all of this happen.

There was concerns from us WAR mains that those DRKies would get together and try to overthrow us. They can’t be on top. Look at them: they can’t even survive their own Immunity cooldown. Those DRKies just can’t handle the fact that they are inferior. Some of blissfully unaware of their stand in the world, but some “feel” something isn’t right. Though we do coax them with the whole “world’s first had a DRK for Ultimate.” To me, that seems to appease them.

They got what they need to play their role right in front of them. Sure, my supreme pulling as a WAR allows me to stay in this mansion and bang models all day, but they got what they need to stay in their small homes. Their small homes that reside on my property, of course. DRKies can’t own a house. Their Dark Minds don’t protect them if their roofs fall on their heads.

Now, if you excuse me, I must write another letter to SE. It seems that some DRKs are not happy with what they are getting. Of course, I don’t write the letter, I have GNB doing that for me.

[Lyth]

...

I actually loved seeing the reactions to the world first ultimate.

"They cleared with DRK? But we asked for every possible buff! And the devs actually caved in and catered to every last request! There must have been some trick! Was it TBN? I knew we shouldn't have let them have that single target bubble. What else could we have begged the devs for?"

The one buff you can't ask for.

It was skill.

You should write some more letters to SE. Maybe they have figured out a solution to this.

[Novak_04]

snip

Someone needs to take a breather...

I was explaining why there is this "hostile" attitude toward these topics -- furthermore, I was trying to not be rude about it. But no... you see someone opposing the topic and got triggered. Furthermore, you said I got "pissy." Please, link me the quote where that happened. I'm trying to be respectful of other people's views. In the past, I've said some things that were rude, but I don't want to stay in that mindset.

I look at your post, and you are downright disrespectful when there wasn't even a need for it. I've always admired your posts in the past, because they were thought-provoking and articulated well. It seems everyone has their moments, so I'm going to chalk this up to you having one. I apologize if something I said got under your skin. It wasn't intended that way -- I guess you skipped over the part where I apologized for fueling the fire. I was literally explaining where all my angst was coming from -- hence the apology.

[whiskeybravo]

If Onslaught is on a 10 second recast, then it's even more powerful. That kind of recast literally means on demand. So it would be even more silly to give up this kind of a recast advantage just to remove the gauge cost.

Onslaught having a recast advantage doesn't mean anything if we don't actually need to use it that often for "mobility".

If fact, it's so superior to the other tanks gap closers that simply using Fell Cleave to shave 5 seconds off Infuriate almost gains you as much potency.

Oh yea we can use it 3 times as often, for a loss of a whopping measly 453 potency. Just wow, Onslaught is so great - needs to be nerfed immediately.

(you could say I changed my mind)

I'll take Onslaught for 300, please. And we can compromise on 30 sec recast.

[Izsha]

I dont believe ove seen it mentioned, but onslaught also used to have a 10x enmity multiplier that vanished. I actually used it quite a bit during defiance unchained mid fight as it is better to use gauge on onslaught under unchained to prevent capping to avoid using IB until deliverance was back, and occasionally to secure aggro (My ot this tier was abysmally bad at managing aggro so I often needed to get some as cheap as possible).

So when were looking at onslaught now, it became a bigger gauge sync as chaos increased the potency value of gauge via chaos and fc increasing chaos recast (the almost break even of old onslaught is now more in the red), and it lost some of its value in 10x enmity. It costs the same, is a larger dps loss, and has no additional effect, and doesnt even have the defiance unchained niche. But this greater dps loss can be used more often!

It's just a bad skill now. The only reason I'm not that annoyed is because we have arms length to soften our need for mobility so it really wont matter very much.

Any changes are purely QoL, but I would like to see a skill like this have some boost. The old enmity boost was enough to give it a niche. Now it's going to be a game of "how can i get through this fight without needing to dash". Maybe I'll have plds use that cover thing they are all whining about

Honestly i'm not sure what to do about it though. The EZGG version would be copypasta the other 3, but that would just mean you spam both charges under IR, and 1 in between. Thats not really a mobility skill, just an OGCD damage thing. But if its going to cost gauge, it should be worth spending gauge on. It managed the fine line of being 'almost' break even so it could be justified to use as mobility to become a gain when needed, and a great way to grab some quick threat without severe punishment. Perhaps the simplest solution would be to slightly up the potency so it falls back into that niche with the value of gauge increasing, it needs to scale with it, even moreso as it lost any other non-mobility function. This of course doesnt address the OP's out of combat concern, but I never really saw the need for out of combat dash. It just delays your opener and risks someone else ganking threat with their 1st gcd vs your piddly charge. Tomahawk always serves the inital grab far better anyway imo and using it mid-fight to manuever/get to adds/etc is still there as is dungeon boss pulls.