QOL change for War for ShB - Onslaught - No not asking for removal of gauge cost

[Novak_04]

I'd like to start off by apologizing for my actions recently. I have been unnecessarily rude and should not have been. I'm sorry for my part in fueling the tank-war fire.

Having said that:

Most of the issue non-warriors are having with warriors calling for changes on Onslaught is partly due to jealousy. With the revamp of the tank jobs, many were hoping for other tanks to get their chance in the spotlight, but it's not leaning that way. Warrior has a drawback with their gap closer... it's a decision-making mechanic. Do you want to do more dps or do you want to gtfo of the AoE that's about to hit you? Many -- myself included -- see this as someone who has everything handed to them asking for more. This is ONE drawback for Warrior.

With all the talk about SE's limited resources and how x can't happen because of funding and such, how can one justify making this "QoL" change for Warrior when there are other tanks that could use the attention? Dark Knights have an invuln with the potential to kill them, a raid wide magic-only defensive that's widely agreed to be lackluster at best, and Gunbreaker's dps is projected to be subpar by leaps and bounds (though, potencies are subject to change). I'm not saying you're unjustified in your request... rather, at this juncture, it's perceived as taking a mile when given an inch.

Lastly, this wouldn't be a QoL change for Warrior... a QoL change would be "changing the price of all items of the same type you have up on the market board at once." This would be an actual gameplay change. It would take away the entire decision making process from using Onslaught, leaving to free access, while the Beast Gauge is used solely for Fell Cleave.

[NyneSwordz]

[QUOTE=Novak_04;5005133]I'd like to start off by apologizing for my actions recently. I have been unnecessarily rude and should not have been. I'm sorry for my part in fueling the tank-war fire.

Having said that:

Most of the issue non-warriors are having with warriors calling for changes on Onslaught is partly due to jealousy. With the revamp of the tank jobs, many were hoping for other tanks to get their chance in the spotlight, but it's not leaning that way. Warrior has a drawback with their gap closer... it's a decision-making mechanic. Do you want to do more dps or do you want to gtfo of the AoE that's about to hit you? Many -- myself included -- see this as someone who has everything handed to them asking for more. This is ONE drawback for Warrior.

With all the talk about SE's limited resources and how x can't happen because of funding and such, how can one justify making this "QoL" change for Warrior when there are other tanks that could use the attention? Dark Knights have an invuln with the potential to kill them, a raid wide magic-only defensive that's widely agreed to be lackluster at best, and Gunbreaker's dps is projected to be subpar by leaps and bounds (though, potencies are subject to change). I'm not saying you're unjustified in your request... rather, at this juncture, it's perceived as taking a mile when given an inch.

[NyneSwordz]

I'd like to start off by apologizing for my actions recently. I have been unnecessarily rude and should not have been. I'm sorry for my part in fueling the tank-war fire.

Having said that:

Most of the issue non-warriors are having with warriors calling for changes on Onslaught is partly due to jealousy. With the revamp of the tank jobs, many were hoping for other tanks to get their chance in the spotlight, but it's not leaning that way. Warrior has a drawback with their gap closer... it's a decision-making mechanic. Do you want to do more dps or do you want to gtfo of the AoE that's about to hit you? Many -- myself included -- see this as someone who has everything handed to them asking for more. This is ONE drawback for Warrior.

With all the talk about SE's limited resources and how x can't happen because of funding and such, how can one justify making this "QoL" change for Warrior when there are other tanks that could use the attention? Dark Knights have an invuln with the potential to kill them, a raid wide magic-only defensive that's widely agreed to be lackluster at best, and Gunbreaker's dps is projected to be subpar by leaps and bounds (though, potencies are subject to change). I'm not saying you're unjustified in your request... rather, at this juncture, it's perceived as taking a mile when given an inch.

Lastly, this wouldn't be a QoL change for Warrior... a QoL change would be "changing the price of all items of the same type you have up on the market board at once." This would be an actual gameplay change. It would take away the entire decision making process from using Onslaught, leaving to free access, while the Beast Gauge is used solely for Fell Cleave.

There is no decision making process to Onslaught though, that's my point. It seems that was taken away in ShB. As for your hypothetical about getting out of danger or continuing dps, I don't think it works that way. With gap closers, I think it's more like "I need to move IN ORDER to dps." For example, situations where the boss suddenly moves a large distance and AOE's half the room, there is no choice but to gap close the boss which achieves both (1) getting out of danger and (2) allowing the tank to continue dps.

And I guess I worded it as a QOL adjustment, because it's not going to break the class if it doesn't get changed. But QOL doesn't equate to something "minor" or "trivial" to me. I've been wanting Onslaught to be free of rage cost since the very beginning of Stormblood.

It's been years.

I understand that the cost was there back in Stormblood because, among other reasons, it generated hate, Paladins didn't have a gap closer, and so the cost was there to differentiate or justify the difference between Onslaught and Plunge. Also to help dump range and prevent overcapping in certain instances and maximizing dps by saving a GCD.

All of those reasons for Onslaught to still have a rage cost seems to be gone now with ShB. Seems to be. I'm not sure. I'm just saying, based on what I've read, and the feedback I've received from asking people like Xeno and Merri, is that there are very little reason for Onslaught to still cost rage.

You may say what if the change affects War DPS? Potency? All of this is being adjusted now, and can simply be adjusted to take into account any effect making Onslaught free of rage cost would have.

And lastly, my original suggestion was simply to make Onslaught free OUTSIDE OF COMBAT. It wouldn't affect balance at all. Moreover, it's a small change. I can't imagine it having a huge cost on developer resource.

Gunbreaker seems amazingly fun from the feedback that I've read. I wouldn't worry about potency at all.

Dark has problems sure, but I heard they're amazingly fun as well. You're free to bring up any issues with Darks, and I get that you feel you haven't been heard, but I doubt, I seriously doubt, the resources spent on Warrior has any real effect or bearing on the developers work on Darks or perceived lack of attention to Dark problems.

Lastly, yeah I don't want to get into a discussion about War v. Dark balance, because that's not why I posted, and I don't want to veer off or have the thread which was supposed to be about a War issue be taken down this other, definitely unfruitful discussion topic. You're free to bring it up for sure, and I support you doing so. There's quite a few threads on it in the forum.

But yeah, if anyone has any good, specific feedback directly related to my suggestion I'd welcome it. Or any Wars out there who'd welcome this kind of change, be sure to chime in. I can't be the only one.

[Kalise]

Most of the issue non-warriors are having with warriors calling for changes on Onslaught is partly due to jealousy.

Then grow up.

That's an extremely childish reaction to something. "Oh, someone has something they don't like about a job I hate with a fiery passion, better go whinge and moan in any thread they make (Instead of putting time and effort into you know... Asking for the buffs and QoL changes for your preferred job)"

With the revamp of the tank jobs, many were hoping for other tanks to get their chance in the spotlight, but it's not leaning that way.

It looks very much like Paladin is going to be king of the Tanks at this stage. With OP Sheltron, still having more party support thanks to Cover and Passage of Arms (Even with Cover's nerf so it costs Gauge) and a slew of buffs to its damage capabilities.

With Warrior literally only being in the meta because of Holmgang and that's it.

Gunbreaker might be relevant if its currently noted potency issues are fixed. Dark has a few problems that need to be addressed though...

Warrior has a drawback with their gap closer... it's a decision-making mechanic. Do you want to do more dps or do you want to gtfo of the AoE that's about to hit you? Many -- myself included -- see this as someone who has everything handed to them asking for more. This is ONE drawback for Warrior.

You say as the Paladin main, who's literally getting everything handed to you. Gap closer? Yep. No more Flash? Yep. More damage? Yep. Better AoE? Yep. Better pulling capability? Yep. Better Stance system? Yep.

Literally everything Paladins have been asking for an more, is coming their way.

Then you have the gall to get pissy when Warrior players speak out about a bass ackwards design in the consistency of their Gap Closer vs all other Tanks (Bearing in mind, PLD, DRK and GNB all have the exact same skill for their gap closer, only Warrior has something different. For reasons that boggle the mind)

With all the talk about SE's limited resources and how x can't happen because of funding and such, how can one justify making this "QoL" change for Warrior when there are other tanks that could use the attention?

Where exactly have you read that players are wanting this issue looked at OVER AND ABOVE changes to other jobs?

Most, if not all Warriors agree that Dark Knight needs some love, especially for Living Dead. Many (If not all) agree that Gunbreaker could use some love based on the media tour data.

I haven't seen anyone saying that changes to Onslaught need to be done as priority number 1 of all things in the game... And no, just mentioning it does not imply that.

I'm not saying you're unjustified in your request... rather, at this juncture, it's perceived as taking a mile when given an inch.

That's on you.

This is supposed to be a "QoL" change. It's touted as a "QoL" change. You know what gets prioritized over "QoL" changes? Everything. Literally everything has higher priority than QoL changes.

Since QoL changes aren't necessary, hence the name "Quality of Life". It merely improves the player experience by making things smoother and/or more convenient.

Lastly, this wouldn't be a QoL change for Warrior... a QoL change would be "changing the price of all items of the same type you have up on the market board at once." This would be an actual gameplay change. It would take away the entire decision making process from using Onslaught, leaving to free access, while the Beast Gauge is used solely for Fell Cleave.

You clearly haven't read either the title of the thread or the post itself. You just saw "War" and decided to piss and moan about WAR favouritism, literally right before an expansion that looks to be catering to Paladins the most out of ANY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME. Like, most other DPS jobs (Devs seemingly preferred role) are getting shit compared to what Paladin is getting (See: Monks and Machinists whom are getting absolute garbage, as well as jobs like RDM/BLM/BRD/NIN/DRG whom are dissapointed with how little they're getting)

If you had bothered to read the post, the OP is simply asking for the ability to open up a fight with a gauge-less Onslaught. With its in combat usage still requiring Gauge.

[Novak_04]

snip

Someone needs to take a breather...

I was explaining why there is this "hostile" attitude toward these topics -- furthermore, I was trying to not be rude about it. But no... you see someone opposing the topic and got triggered. Furthermore, you said I got "pissy." Please, link me the quote where that happened. I'm trying to be respectful of other people's views. In the past, I've said some things that were rude, but I don't want to stay in that mindset.

I look at your post, and you are downright disrespectful when there wasn't even a need for it. I've always admired your posts in the past, because they were thought-provoking and articulated well. It seems everyone has their moments, so I'm going to chalk this up to you having one. I apologize if something I said got under your skin. It wasn't intended that way -- I guess you skipped over the part where I apologized for fueling the fire. I was literally explaining where all my angst was coming from -- hence the apology.

[Kalise]

I was explaining why there is this "hostile" attitude toward these topics -- furthermore, I was trying to not be rude about it.

Yeah, by apologizing for being disrespectful, before then lumping a single Warrior QoL improvement suggestion into a pile of "someone who has everything handed to them asking for more."

Made even worse by you admitting you share this view and your main class is stated as Paladin. Which is literally the class that is getting everything handed to them this expansion. (Which I'm personally totally fine with. More power to PLD players. I only hope that DRK eventually gets fixed)

Furthermore, you said I got "pissy." Please, link me the quote where that happened.

With the revamp of the tank jobs, many were hoping for other tanks to get their chance in the spotlight, but it's not leaning that way.

Many -- myself included -- see this as someone who has everything handed to them asking for more. This is ONE drawback for Warrior.

With all the talk about SE's limited resources and how x can't happen because of funding and such, how can one justify making this "QoL" change for Warrior when there are other tanks that could use the attention?

I'm not saying you're unjustified in your request... rather, at this juncture, it's perceived as taking a mile when given an inch.

A lot of moaning about Warrior being Warrior... Warrior's not allowed nice things because Warrior. People aren't allowed to talk about things wrong with their classes kit because Warrior.

It comes off a lot like certain other posters, whom always pop into Tank threads to bemoan Warrior for being Warrior.

Meanwhile, you don't see Warrior mains going around crying about how PLD is getting buffs. Warriors aren't jumping into threads about buffs for DRK/GNB and asking for more Warrior changes.

So why do you feel the need to hop into a Warrior thread and complain about Warriors?

Like, there are more important things to be doing than complaining about Warriors being Warriors. Such as, trying to get DRK the buffs it deserves given that both its reworks have be disasters (AND also made the job less interesting to play to boot...) or ensuring that GNB isn't DoA due to its crap potencies and lacklustre defensive skills.

I say this as someone who's likely to main swap into Gunbreaker because I'm tired of the current iteration of Inner Release where it's all about just spamming 1 skill for the duration (Which is also true for the new Delirium as well as Requiescat, outside of finishing with a Confiteor)