Thre important changes please to Frontlines to stop an RNG slaughter-fest

[awesomega]

"PVP isn't supposed to be a "feels good" time where everyone wins. That's not PVP." This might be the biggest nonsense Ive ever read in the context of this discussion.

[DrWho2010]

i'm getting drunk off of all this whinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnne.

[Kuroka]

They have a point, you clearly see the premades burn through all mixed parties. IF someone hasnt played heal in ages or barely leveled em, they might be better of stay dps. i might be able to do both, you might be too, but there are plenty who just cant... id take an good dps over an terrible heal anytime. And its unfair using TS against randoms. you literally see their movement patterns and all...

Dont get me wrong, I see why its fun but there should be [Mixed] and [Premade] ques for all, with maybe allowing up to 3 ppl together for mixed. Or else its literally feeding sheeps to wolfs.

[ShivaTairo]

There is only ONE pre made CWLS on Crystal DC for pvp (Mint Condition), stop being a crybaby.
There's no need to split ques.

[DebbieMachete]

Regardless of what SE decides to do or not do, you should probably ask what you yourself can do. For starters, it helps to remember that "premades" aren't some unbeatable, unfair, exclusive exploit. It's just a group of like-minded people playing together. So why not just do the same? Make your own linkshell with people you think are good. Everyone in a premade started out solo-queueing anyway. They got better and learned the game despite playing with a bunch of uncoordinated strangers.

If you're gonna think of your losses as some random roll of the dice, at the very least start thinking of ways to incrementally swing the odds in your favor.

[Nova_Rox]

There will be losers in PvP simply by design. Some folks decided they were tired of losing and they improved themselves and made a group afterwards.

What's stopping everyone else from doing the same? Put in the work then groups will invite you. If you aren't very good then you can't be expected to be invited into premades with good players.

[loreleidiangelo]

Well to be fair, 9 button pvp is in itself miserable. We're all having a bad time playing it. We're just having slightly more fun than you are.

LMAO ain't this the truth. I haven't PVP'd since they introduced this "streamlined" garbage in Stormblood.

[Newmanxeno]

You guys know you can make a premade to fight a premade? Why punish us for playing with friends? This is still an MMO right? Why divide the queue even more? You see someone tired of getting beat too? Join them.

[ShivaTairo]

Exactly, OP just because its a "premade" it isn't any advantage tbh, its not like they get some sort of special ability to use during the match that makes it unfair.
Ya no.

- Premades don't "Run back to base for no reason" once mid is cleared, they don't "split up", they focus on PVP more then PvE objectives. PvE is nothing but a distraction in most 24s aside from seize "until" your group has fever. If your group is focused on PVE objectives in PVP, and don't have fever yet, they're doing it wrong.

- If your group is "ever" sitting still or defending, you're doing it wrong. Don't ever sit still. aka "Defend node" is the worst thing you can allow someone to get away with saying and following.
- When someone says "don't chase" or "Dont feed" They are STILL doing it wrong. You chase as a group, you get that fever ASAP. You don't "Feed" you GET fed, and if nothing is coming at you, you chase down your food. Wolves, not sheep. SO much of what people scream to be doing is in fact the opposite of what should be happening. Next time someone tells you not to chase, I invite you to ask if they need a tampax. While to a great degree you should be chasing SMARTLY, not blindly dumb and bullheaded, by all means, you should absolutely still be chasing, there is just a proper way to do it. The proper time for it is "always" though.

- Source ^? The premade that hasn't lost a 24 in months.

- The real winners of the match are the groups that hold FEVER. Not the "Cry and get back to base to do nothing" groups. Remember that the first group to get fever wins, if you're sitting there doing nothing, while the other team is farming to get fever, you are done for. There is little you'll be able to do to kill them at that point, even if you try to 16 vs 8 them, the 8 will win if they have alot of fever'd melee.

- Fever groups typically contain 5 melee and 3 heals or 5 melee 2 heals 1 warrior (no darks or paladins, its for war holmgang to lock down healers) And the top tier premades will have 5/6 ninjas available at any given time on top of it. Its called the melee death ball and it controls everything in the match once they get fever. Strategy to win should be focused on how to get fever first before the other 2 groups, not kill nodes or whatever else faster because you'll just do the same dmg as the other groups for the same amount of points. Which is why in shatter for example if you see an "Entire" group hitting ppl and not the big ice, "they" end up winning, not the scrubs hitting the big ice being good little PVE'ers and losing. (In other words you simply defend the big ice by PVP'ing, only hitting it once everyone around it is dead) If your group can't do that fast enough then group is bad.

---- A tip to start when you form a premade, or even just a few friends in a party
- Do NOT include ranged DPS physical nor magical in your premades, and no RDM either. Any melee dps will do, but ninja is highly prefered. 1, maybe 2 off job carries tops if its friends can work, preferred # is 0 ranged though. Melee has a 15% buff, if you have 6 of them thats 90% more damage focused onto 1 healer, that healer will NOT live longer then 2 seconds (Literally 2 seconds yes)

- If your friends won't job change, ask them to, if they refuse to play PVP appropriate roles for the strategy, then dont play pvp with them. (Topic is about winning after all, not making friends)

- Mark your targets with a /mk attack Macro, maybe even have a nice soothing sound when you do it. Healers should be marked first. And play the push in / pull out game a little bit if needed, if you can bum rush the healer great but its not always viable. Push and pull until it is and their party is a bit scrambled. This happens quickly, usually only takes 10-15 seconds of push / pulling out to scamble them enough for all melees to rush the healer.

- Also mark "one" person in your party for everyone to follow, maybe with a square, and tell everyone to follow the square etc, make sure its someone that takes everything in this post into account. You won't get anywhere if everyone decides they wanna lead, this takes you different directions. (This is really just for PUG groups, its not needed after you get a good group formed up)

- Everything above can be coordinated within any random pug group as well, just lay out the plan to focus on gaining fever first before the match starts. If they follow the plan great, if they don't, yes you will lose, because it takes all 7 other people to be on the same page for it to work. Just look at who in the group followed the plan, and invite them to a party.

- Anyone that prefers to go solo and split in your group of 8 in a 24 match is clearly not someone you'll be inviting to a party, even if only 1 of the other 7 follow you, invite the 1 to your party, look for more slowly, and discuss making a cwls after a few rounds if it goes good.

- Macros are your friend. NEVER EVER, use map markers in macros, EVER. You will be observed as a noobie that doesn't know what they're doing. Use clear and concise directions (N W S E etc) in your macro, perhaps with an "appropriate" sound effect. And for gods sake do NOT spam it. Hit it once, if ppl follow it fine, if not, it is what it is. Just make sure your own people and party follow it, or consider replacing them.
- Keep your macros for your premade /Party only, for gods sake do not /alliance use them.

- If you're waiting for someone else to take initiative, and start a party or a cwls, or even just lead with macros for your party because "You don't feel like it", IT WONT EVER HAPPEN. So just do it yourself.

- Like to re-iterate, ignore cry babies that scream "BASE". You need a base, so take the enemies, don't place focus on your own. Go get kills while holding someone elses base in secure. And yes, until you have 8 people on the same page this will be frustrating because if just 1 person cries like a girl to come back to base, if even ONLY 1 other person listens to the crybaby, your raid now has only 6 people, and will most likely end badly.

- 95% of the "Alliance" Leaders spread bad objectives and the loudest ones tend to have little more then 5 matches ever completed in their entire 14 career. I.E. think-they-know-it-alls. (They know nothing jon snow) Once in a cwls practice ignoring 100% of what the alliance loud mouths are saying, they can either get on board and follow your group or lose can gtfo. Don't let inexperienced loud mouths control your premade once you get it going. Yes they'll get pissed and yes its hilarious, because these little kids that think they can tell 24 ppl what to do incorrectly get hot headed, just ignore them and keep doing with your party what you normally do as a party. And when the alliance is 500 points ahead and the bad leads try to self proclaim themselves as the reason why, have yourself a little chuckle.

- Most importantly nothing stated above is out of reach to be done in a PUG group either, premade isn't needed, learning and ignoring bad leadership is. While being on the same page is very important, enabling a bad and loud alliance lead is much much worse. Don't ever enable them, just continue to ignore them, have fun, and win with your group once formed.

- Not taking all of the above into account when PVPing will just keep you at the losing end of matches be it a PUG or a premade.

[Keoeson]

There will be losers in PvP simply by design. Some folks decided they were tired of losing and they improved themselves and made a group afterwards.

What's stopping everyone else from doing the same? Put in the work then groups will invite you. If you aren't very good then you can't be expected to be invited into premades with good players.

Why should I have to join a party to "enjoy" pvp? I just got out of a frontline match, where as usual one party dominated the map. One person also had the first time achievement and thus got great first impression of what to expect from pvp. On a Saturday during the day there are not enough people queueing for a large frontline match.
Well, I'm out, I got the garo achievements. Keep telling yourself that there's no problem with premades and enjoy the long queue times...