Thre important changes please to Frontlines to stop an RNG slaughter-fest

[Doozer]

Generally, people who like PvP are competitive, and when they get beat they want to do all within their power to get better. The harder they get beat, the harder they want to try - even should they get steam-rolled.

I wanna live in whatever wonderful world you live in. All I see from competitive people who go ape for PvP are smashed keyboards and bratty little men calling me the N word or something. Competitive people don't always want to get better -- they usually just want to win.

[Mavrias]

Why should I have to join a party to "enjoy" pvp? I just got out of a frontline match, where as usual one party dominated the map. One person also had the first time achievement and thus got great first impression of what to expect from pvp. On a Saturday during the day there are not enough people queueing for a large frontline match.
Well, I'm out, I got the garo achievements. Keep telling yourself that there's no problem with premades and enjoy the long queue times...

why should you have to join and communicate with a party to enjoy something in a mmo? thats your question? hello?

[Sylvain]

why should you have to join and communicate with a party to enjoy something in a mmo? thats your question? hello?

You can enjoy dunjon trial and raid without engaging into much communication... (beside "hello o/" , ty for group etc)
Yes, joining a party is better, but most content doesn't require it. So yes, why should we have to join a party to "enjoy" pvp?

Shouldn't you just enjoy pvp for doing pvp? Like... I can't just join a match, heal people and have fun doing that? Is that actually too much to ask? like "hey I have some free time and I feel like doing Frontlike, open menu -> queue." Does this kind of behavior sound so alien to you that it should be punished?

I'm not saying there's no point in joining group/communities... but if joining a pvp community is a requirement for making the experience enjoyable then no wonder the PvP scene is as barren as the first shard.

[Nova_Rox]

You can enjoy dunjon trial and raid without engaging into much communication... (beside "hello o/" , ty for group etc)
Yes, joining a party is better, but most content doesn't require it. So yes, why should we have to join a party to "enjoy" pvp?

Shouldn't you just enjoy pvp for doing pvp? Like... I can't just join a match, heal people and have fun doing that? Is that actually too much to ask? like "hey I have some free time and I feel like doing Frontlike, open menu -> queue." Does this kind of behavior sound so alien to you that it should be punished?

I'm not saying there's no point in joining group/communities... but if joining a pvp community is a requirement for making the experience enjoyable then no wonder the PvP scene is as barren as the first shard.

That's because everyone knows the mechanics in said dungeon. I assure you when there's a new player in lower level dungeons there's a lot more chatting.

Want to be able to play PvP without having to chat? Get the entire community educated, join pvpaissa and read guies (https://pvpaissa.com/discord)

Until that happens, and it probably never will, you need to be willing to communicate in PvP. PvE is static, you learn the fight once and you move on. PvP is constantly changing, therefore more communication will be involved.

Make macros if you have to.

[Newmanxeno]

You guys know you can make a premade to fight a premade? Why punish us for playing with friends? This is still an MMO right? Why divide the queue even more? You see someone tired of getting beat too? Join them.

[ShivaTairo]

Exactly, OP just because its a "premade" it isn't any advantage tbh, its not like they get some sort of special ability to use during the match that makes it unfair.
Ya no.

- Premades don't "Run back to base for no reason" once mid is cleared, they don't "split up", they focus on PVP more then PvE objectives. PvE is nothing but a distraction in most 24s aside from seize "until" your group has fever. If your group is focused on PVE objectives in PVP, and don't have fever yet, they're doing it wrong.

- If your group is "ever" sitting still or defending, you're doing it wrong. Don't ever sit still. aka "Defend node" is the worst thing you can allow someone to get away with saying and following.
- When someone says "don't chase" or "Dont feed" They are STILL doing it wrong. You chase as a group, you get that fever ASAP. You don't "Feed" you GET fed, and if nothing is coming at you, you chase down your food. Wolves, not sheep. SO much of what people scream to be doing is in fact the opposite of what should be happening. Next time someone tells you not to chase, I invite you to ask if they need a tampax. While to a great degree you should be chasing SMARTLY, not blindly dumb and bullheaded, by all means, you should absolutely still be chasing, there is just a proper way to do it. The proper time for it is "always" though.

- Source ^? The premade that hasn't lost a 24 in months.

- The real winners of the match are the groups that hold FEVER. Not the "Cry and get back to base to do nothing" groups. Remember that the first group to get fever wins, if you're sitting there doing nothing, while the other team is farming to get fever, you are done for. There is little you'll be able to do to kill them at that point, even if you try to 16 vs 8 them, the 8 will win if they have alot of fever'd melee.

- Fever groups typically contain 5 melee and 3 heals or 5 melee 2 heals 1 warrior (no darks or paladins, its for war holmgang to lock down healers) And the top tier premades will have 5/6 ninjas available at any given time on top of it. Its called the melee death ball and it controls everything in the match once they get fever. Strategy to win should be focused on how to get fever first before the other 2 groups, not kill nodes or whatever else faster because you'll just do the same dmg as the other groups for the same amount of points. Which is why in shatter for example if you see an "Entire" group hitting ppl and not the big ice, "they" end up winning, not the scrubs hitting the big ice being good little PVE'ers and losing. (In other words you simply defend the big ice by PVP'ing, only hitting it once everyone around it is dead) If your group can't do that fast enough then group is bad.

---- A tip to start when you form a premade, or even just a few friends in a party
- Do NOT include ranged DPS physical nor magical in your premades, and no RDM either. Any melee dps will do, but ninja is highly prefered. 1, maybe 2 off job carries tops if its friends can work, preferred # is 0 ranged though. Melee has a 15% buff, if you have 6 of them thats 90% more damage focused onto 1 healer, that healer will NOT live longer then 2 seconds (Literally 2 seconds yes)

- If your friends won't job change, ask them to, if they refuse to play PVP appropriate roles for the strategy, then dont play pvp with them. (Topic is about winning after all, not making friends)

- Mark your targets with a /mk attack Macro, maybe even have a nice soothing sound when you do it. Healers should be marked first. And play the push in / pull out game a little bit if needed, if you can bum rush the healer great but its not always viable. Push and pull until it is and their party is a bit scrambled. This happens quickly, usually only takes 10-15 seconds of push / pulling out to scamble them enough for all melees to rush the healer.

- Also mark "one" person in your party for everyone to follow, maybe with a square, and tell everyone to follow the square etc, make sure its someone that takes everything in this post into account. You won't get anywhere if everyone decides they wanna lead, this takes you different directions. (This is really just for PUG groups, its not needed after you get a good group formed up)

- Everything above can be coordinated within any random pug group as well, just lay out the plan to focus on gaining fever first before the match starts. If they follow the plan great, if they don't, yes you will lose, because it takes all 7 other people to be on the same page for it to work. Just look at who in the group followed the plan, and invite them to a party.

- Anyone that prefers to go solo and split in your group of 8 in a 24 match is clearly not someone you'll be inviting to a party, even if only 1 of the other 7 follow you, invite the 1 to your party, look for more slowly, and discuss making a cwls after a few rounds if it goes good.

- Macros are your friend. NEVER EVER, use map markers in macros, EVER. You will be observed as a noobie that doesn't know what they're doing. Use clear and concise directions (N W S E etc) in your macro, perhaps with an "appropriate" sound effect. And for gods sake do NOT spam it. Hit it once, if ppl follow it fine, if not, it is what it is. Just make sure your own people and party follow it, or consider replacing them.
- Keep your macros for your premade /Party only, for gods sake do not /alliance use them.

- If you're waiting for someone else to take initiative, and start a party or a cwls, or even just lead with macros for your party because "You don't feel like it", IT WONT EVER HAPPEN. So just do it yourself.

- Like to re-iterate, ignore cry babies that scream "BASE". You need a base, so take the enemies, don't place focus on your own. Go get kills while holding someone elses base in secure. And yes, until you have 8 people on the same page this will be frustrating because if just 1 person cries like a girl to come back to base, if even ONLY 1 other person listens to the crybaby, your raid now has only 6 people, and will most likely end badly.

- 95% of the "Alliance" Leaders spread bad objectives and the loudest ones tend to have little more then 5 matches ever completed in their entire 14 career. I.E. think-they-know-it-alls. (They know nothing jon snow) Once in a cwls practice ignoring 100% of what the alliance loud mouths are saying, they can either get on board and follow your group or lose can gtfo. Don't let inexperienced loud mouths control your premade once you get it going. Yes they'll get pissed and yes its hilarious, because these little kids that think they can tell 24 ppl what to do incorrectly get hot headed, just ignore them and keep doing with your party what you normally do as a party. And when the alliance is 500 points ahead and the bad leads try to self proclaim themselves as the reason why, have yourself a little chuckle.

- Most importantly nothing stated above is out of reach to be done in a PUG group either, premade isn't needed, learning and ignoring bad leadership is. While being on the same page is very important, enabling a bad and loud alliance lead is much much worse. Don't ever enable them, just continue to ignore them, have fun, and win with your group once formed.

- Not taking all of the above into account when PVPing will just keep you at the losing end of matches be it a PUG or a premade.

[UnrealTai]

Winning is cool, but tryharding isn't. While melee does theoretically put out more damage than a ranged can, there aren't many players out there that actually can do that. Other than that, solid post.

Its actually for burst abuse. Melee now gets a 15% buff, if you have 6 stacking on one healer theres nothing that can be done about it even if the enemy team has four/five healers. Ranged cannot do the same, it will lack the 90% additional damage. (our cwls melee averages 400-600k dps with a high of 700, ranged will never do that)

Thats honestly the most important part in the post in fact. Absolutely positiviely never, No ranged. The rest is great practice but a melee ball decides everything.

[Garten]

ShivaTairo, I Wish i was your friend. Thanks for explaining all this stuff.

[Guesswhat]

- When someone says "don't chase" or "Dont feed" They are STILL doing it wrong.

Too much truth in this post, but I have to comment on this paragraph as one who have done 95%+ matches with PUG teams.
IF PUG teams listens (which is rare, and if they do they usually react veeery slowly), you have to also tell them when to pull away from 1v1 vs premades. PUG vs premades is very hard to lead. Best bet to win is to flank them with other team. If you smell a non-flanking situation and you don't have any fevers, pull away.

Usual ways PUG reacts to "We have to flank the premade!":

"No, stay on objective."
"Def"
"No ima leader, I know best" (insta 3rd)
"Avoid fighting, we can't beat them."
"lol, why?"
"Don't fight pls"
"Let them fight"
"Stay here"
"gg"

EDIT:
And, while I understand why people don't like limiting premades, I'd say the best solution would be to limit it to light party when Q for frontlines. Sure it's fun to steamroll the other teams, getting dat win count up, but there is far less skill involved, and you're impressing no one. It's far more impressive leading a PUG team against a premade and winning.