Astrologian Cards Can't Be a Coin Flip: A petition

[Melorie]

A lot of the doom saying boils down to some variation of "The took my cards - ast now boring/,class sucks, and SE is terrible! They hate healers!"

Dude, do you play astrologian? If you play astrologian and read the tooltips you can form an opinion if you like it or not, period. You can even be indecisive, but it's crystal clear enough to form a stance even if your stance is "idk". If you play this game long enough you know how fight design work and you can have a very good vision if this is fun for you or not, period. For me they removed a core aspect of the class and yes, that's boring. I don't need to do the new trial or new dungeon to know that 6 buffs turning into 1 dps buff is boring for me. Because I played the class and I know what I like about it and what changes are boring for me. Because it is my main.

If you do, ok. I have played enough Ast and FFXIV to form an opinion on that, and many people here also did.
Stop trying to discard people's views on it because they did not do a new dungeon. People that played this class have the hability to form this opinion. We're not talking about a new skill, it's a core change in a very important aspect of the class.

So all the fury and screaming at the heavens is just nonsense.

If you think that this is nonsense, fine. Many here don't share that view and have reason for that. You don't work at Square Enix, you can't tell people when it's best to give feedback. They released info, people have the right to judge that info. I can't come here and say hey, Ishgard's reconstruction system is going to be dull! Because in fact, I know nothing about it and there's zero info about it. But I know Astrologian and FFXIV design in general enough.


Edit: I checked and look, you don't play as a healer. You know, I don't play as a tank. That's why I'm not on tank threads talking about how they shouldn't have opinions about the changes in their tooltips. Because I know that people that play tanks probably have a good view of their class to judge what they've seen on the tooltips. Like, you don't even have a healer on 70. Specially astrologian, the class that this thread is discussing. You probably did not experience most of the game content in-game as a healer, so you can't even grasp if most of the complaints about healers make sense. You, the same person that does not have any experience on healing is here telling us that we can't judge the expac changes because we haven't played it.

Well, guess what, you can't judge our complaints because you haven't played as a astrologian either. You don't have the dimension to understand the roots of our discussion. There's nothing wrong with that. But please, refrain from discussing things that you don't have experience.
You're trying to silence people and saying that what they're saying is nonsense but you don't even get to see the situation from their point of view.
Why are you doing that? What's the point? I get the astrologians that are here happy with the changes. They played the class and know what they like and what they don't like about it. But you don't.
If you can't handle threads with discussions about the tooltips and, of course, complaints, just don't acess it. Coming here to tell everyone that how they feel is nonsense if you are not in their position doesn't make sense.

[Dyvid]

I was unaware SCH could straight buff damage of party members, or are we using the "A chair has four legs, and a horse has 4 legs - therefore a chair is a horse" method of thinking here?

The entire point of AST was dishing out those DPS buffs to other party members. The RNG in AST now will be (although smaller) collecting the 3 symbols needed to give another DPS buff.

I think you mean if a chair has four legs and a sofa has four legs, you sit on it. A DPS buff is a DPS buff rather it's direct damage or indirect damage like Crit Bonus and Haste Bonus. Now instead of a 3 in 6 chance to buff DPS every 30s, it has 100% chance to buff DPS every 30s. Not only is that bland, it's unbalanced.

[ZoeZephyri]

I'm not one of those happy about the change, but just want to throw my 2 cents; I picked it because not only the gameplay but the theme itself of 'gambling with/defying fate' (aka be at RNG's mercy). Even if the mini game of drawing cards is still there in the form of gathering the 3 seals, the fact all cards are literally the same thing completely kills and nullifies the fun and immersion of the job - they literally stripped it off part of its identity.

I'm honestly very surprised more people aren't talking about this.

As much as I'm sad about how the gameplay will be effected, my largest concern is that the class identity and immersion is gone. We're literally going to be playing Ishgard Astrology with only The Balance card. The decision for SE to make new mechanics align exactly with the description of the antagonist branch of Astrology from the story..... It baffles me. I can't understand how that idea ever got the green light without anyone pointing it out.

I don't really care how they fix Astrologian, but, the way things are going, we're going to be doing the Astro quests helping Laveva spread Sharlayan astrology while hoping she doesn't notice every card we draw is The Fury. We're gonna be called a Heretic Sharlayan when we're literally only using The Balance, just like Ishgard Astrology.

[Melorie]

As much as I'm sad about how the gameplay will be effected, my largest concern is that the class identity and immersion is gone. We're literally going to be playing Ishgard Astrology with only The Balance card. The decision for SE to make new mechanics align exactly with the description of the antagonist branch of Astrology from the story..... It baffles me. I can't understand how that idea ever got the green light without anyone pointing it out.

I think that this is what surprised me the most about this change, honestly. It pretty much messes up with the lore behind the symbols and cards. I mean you have all these cards... And they all, at the end of the day, do the same thing? All the constellations mean the same? This, coming from Square Enix, that tries to (or used to) deal with their lore very carefully is just. Ugh.

[Iscah]

I'm honestly very surprised more people aren't talking about this.

As much as I'm sad about how the gameplay will be effected, my largest concern is that the class identity and immersion is gone. We're literally going to be playing Ishgard Astrology with only The Balance card. The decision for SE to make new mechanics align exactly with the description of the antagonist branch of Astrology from the story..... It baffles me. I can't understand how that idea ever got the green light without anyone pointing it out.

I don't really care how they fix Astrologian, but, the way things are going, we're going to be doing the Astro quests helping Laveva spread Sharlayan astrology while hoping she doesn't notice every card we draw is The Fury. We're gonna be called a Heretic Sharlayan when we're literally only using The Balance, just like Ishgard Astrology.

No, that's not how the lore works.

The effects of the cards have been rewritten. As the story will now exist, the Balance was never the only card to buff your attack. It will have always been the case that all card readings will improve the damage output of their target, but work best if they align in some special cosmic way.

I also can't picture how changing the function of the cards aligns with Sevestre's intentions to keep the (now rewritten) discipline of astromancy to the world. We're still spreading those teachings, but the teachings have changed.

The "spells other than Balance" have not been locked away. They never existed.

[SieyaM]

Have you played astrologian before, or are you just thinking about picking it up?

Assuming the cards stay visually the same as they are now, each one has a unique symbol as well as colour, themed on the six elements in the game. The "draw card" button also changes to the name of your current card.

I play it some now, and I know what the cards are now but my concern is when I set them that little indicator about where the currently drawn card is. If the color on that indicator, which I assuming is the seals, is the only way for me to know which ones I have already set than it might be useless to me depending on what colors they use. I also have not found anything that isnt a video to explain the new skills and job changes, and I haven't really had time to sit down and watch any of them. If there is some kind of text or image somewhere that has them then I would love to see it.

[WaterShield]

No, that's not how the lore works.

The effects of the cards have been rewritten. As the story will now exist, the Balance was never the only card to buff your attack. It will have always been the case that all card readings will improve the damage output of their target, but work best if they align in some special cosmic way.

I also can't picture how changing the function of the cards aligns with Sevestre's intentions to keep the (now rewritten) discipline of astromancy to the world. We're still spreading those teachings, but the teachings have changed.

The "spells other than Balance" have not been locked away. They never existed.

This is why everyone is upset. The thing they liked will now be Thanos snapped out of existence. If you liked it you're SOL because you will not be able to access it anymore. It will cease to exist.

[Eli85]

So, I mained AST during Heavensward (but not Stormblood), and I completely disagree with the OP and many of the others who are upset at the 5.0 changes. Look, having options with your buff cards is only meaningful if the practical value of those cards is equivalent (and I really don't think I need to convince people that in 3.0 and 4.0 this was not the case). You had some options in Royal Road and Re-draw, but let's face it: if you didn't pull Balance, it was either fodder for Royal Road or Re-draw. None of the non-Balance cards were worthless, but they came nowhere near the value of Balance, which resulted in, "If it wasn't Balance, it's worthless, unless I need something for Royal Road." The two choices, then, were either radically re-balance every card (not easy as it sounds, even in an hypothetical framework) or turn everything into a DPS buff. Clearly, S-E chose the latter, while giving us a bit of RNG (the quest for three different seals). Ultimately, what I think people need to understand is, giving six different cards meaningful and equivalent buffs, while at the same time making them valued (so you have a reason to bring AST over WHM or SCH), is not the easiest thing in the world. That's why I'm good with the changes. AST cards will no longer be about "not Balance, therefore trash," and that is going to feel so much better when actually playing the class, which I think is more important than having a variety of card buffs, most of which were trashed by nearly all high end ASTs, and arguably the lion's share of players across all skill levels.


I'm sure some will disagree with me, but I think if you look at it from a practical gameplay and development perspective, this had to happen, and it's best for the job in the long run.

[Iscah]

This is why everyone is upset. The thing they liked will now be Thanos snapped out of existence. If you liked it you're SOL because you will not be able to access it anymore. It will cease to exist.

From a gameplay perspective, yes. But from a lore perspective... well, of course they're going to have to rewrite the small amount of lines that discussed the exact effect of the cards. But I can't see it having much impact on the story, or the story-driven identity of the job.

And we are certainly not going through the story "drawing nothing but Balance cards".

[WaterShield]

So, I mained AST during Heavensward (but not Stormblood), and I completely disagree with the OP and many of the others who are upset at the 5.0 changes. Look, having options with your buff cards is only meaningful if the practical value of those cards is equivalent (and I really don't think I need to convince people that in 3.0 and 4.0 this was not the case). You had some options in Royal Road and Re-draw, but let's face it: if you didn't pull Balance, it was either fodder for Royal Road or Re-draw. None of the non-Balance cards were worthless, but they came nowhere near the value of Balance, which resulted in, "If it wasn't Balance, it's worthless, unless I need something for Royal Road." The two choices, then, were either radically re-balance every card (not easy as it sounds, even in an hypothetical framework) or turn everything into a DPS buff. Clearly, S-E chose the latter, while giving us a bit of RNG (the quest for three different seals). Ultimately, what I think people need to understand is, giving six different cards meaningful and equivalent buffs, while at the same time making them valued (so you have a reason to bring AST over WHM or SCH), is not the easiest thing in the world. That's why I'm good with the changes. AST cards will no longer be about "not Balance, therefore trash," and that is going to feel so much better when actually playing the class, which I think is more important than having a variety of card buffs, most of which were trashed by nearly all high end ASTs, and arguably the lion's share of players across all skill levels.


I'm sure some will disagree with me, but I think if you look at it from a practical gameplay and development perspective, this had to happen, and it's best for the job in the long run.

So now all of your cards are the same... just give them a button that auto buffs a target every so often then. No need for cards at all right? You might draw something you don't want from a deck of cards after all. Cuz that's how cards work.