Disappointment of Shoha/Feedback. Samurai Lv80 Skill.

[Wynn_Storm]

Yeah, you're right actually. I may have been melding this thread mentally with another thread, considering how many proper moan-fests I've read through today (some of them really fun mind you!).

I mained Bard since they existed in 1.x (1.20 I think? Too lazy look it up) until SB release, when I switched to SAM, so you can imagine how excited I was for that job. I still love it and I think giving meditate a "function" is neat no matter how they pull it off. I think the main problem with this skill is the level you unlock it at, more than any issue with the skill itself.

I agree with your statement regarding the level the ability is obtained.

Honestly i would switch Hissatsu: Senei with Shoha.

So at 72 we get Shoha, and at 80 we get Hissatsu: Senei instead.

I think it would at least feel more rewarding. Senei is just the ST version of Guren. So i feel like it'd make sense since Guren is the level 70 ability, and then Senei being the level 80 ability.

But that's just my take on it.

[xxvaynxx]

Toying with some ideas on how to improve Shoha or make it more interactive. I rather like the idea of pairing it with Seigan. So I came up with the following.

Every successful use of Seigan or Merciful Eye provides a stack of some sort. We can accumulate three stacks, which have Seigan's full potency for each use or half for Merciful Eye. Upon reaching three stacks, you become Shoha Ready (think Assassinate) which not only unlocks Shoha but adds an additional 220/110 potency. To break it down...

1 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 220/110
2 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 440/220
3 Seigan/Merciful Eye = 660/330
Shoha ready puts the potency at 880/440, making that Shoha's actual potency

Potencies could still be adjusted but I feel like rewarding successful Third Eye proccing is a far better mechanic as it encourages people to actually pay attention to it whereas now Seigan as always been something of an afterthought.

I too like it paring with seigan. Since its kinda a "meh" skill and you just do it.

[Esphyxia]

Current Shoha will be like stormblood release Shake it off, aka shake it off my bar.

[Barraind]

I think everyone is missing the point, you no longer can convert into Kenki so now mediate is the only way other than skills to generate it. You will have to use it, it cuts back on your dps and that's intentional I imagine.

You're losing 10 a minute, but it's also adjusting the emphasis on Kenki spending windows (you probably want to kaiten every midare now) so that 10 may appear to be a larger potency loss than it is in practice.

1 Kenki is roughly 12.8 potency as a spammable attack or 20 potency when coupled with a 60 second cooldown, so meditate into shoha at max is currently 1140 potency over 7 gcd's and 2 backloaded ogcd's.

That is not good unless you're getting 3 (it's probably 4) or more meditate stacks with 0 loss of potency every 60 seconds.

And if fights are going to have 12-18% of the duration as forced downtime in that predictable of a manner...


ADDITIONALLY! If the downtime requires movement during or after, it will result in no or reduced shoha.

[Arkdra]

The lost kenki comparing ikishoten to hagakure is made up in the increased kenki gain of yukikaze.

Also can't believe people are getting wrapped up in, "Our level 80 ability should be better!!!" This is absurd. You'll hit level cap again in about 40 hours played assuming you're questing at launch and even less play time if this isn't your primary job (cowards) and you level it using ldr or whatever. Further, the 80 ability being bad is exactly the optimal one to be bad if I had to choose, because it means you have to put up with it less of the time. Why would you think swapping senei for shoha is a good maneuver? That just means you have more level ranges where you have shoha sitting on your bars going mostly unused except as circumstances permit and fewer instances where you whack some jerk with your scabbard for 1250 potency.

For my money, I think meditation stacks should no longer be lost except when zoning. This lets you build up to get that big hit eventually. I also think getting meditation stacks from seigan and merciful eyes is a great way to encourage using those abilities, and a good way for good sams to stand out from bad ones in a way that isn't going to come up all the time like hagakure use currently does.

[Wynn_Storm]

The lost kenki comparing ikishoten to hagakure is made up in the increased kenki gain of yukikaze.

Also can't believe people are getting wrapped up in, "Our level 80 ability should be better!!!" This is absurd. You'll hit level cap again in about 40 hours played assuming you're questing at launch and even less play time if this isn't your primary job (cowards) and you level it using ldr or whatever. Further, the 80 ability being bad is exactly the optimal one to be bad if I had to choose, because it means you have to put up with it less of the time. Why would you think swapping senei for shoha is a good maneuver? That just means you have more level ranges where you have shoha sitting on your bars going mostly unused except as circumstances permit and fewer instances where you whack some jerk with your scabbard for 1250 potency.

I can't even comprehend your argument. You're saying we should be happy getting a crappy level 80 ability because we won't be doing much lvl 80 content? Do you actually think before you type? Because that just doesn't make sense. Your whole post is flawed. This isn't like some item we get and only have to deal with for a temporary amount of time. No, this is a level 80 ability that we will be using for 2+ years.

Also why are you insulting people for getting to level cap and calling them cowards? You are unnecessarily hostile and you need to back off.

[Arkdra]

I can't even comprehend your argument. You're saying we should be happy getting a crappy level 80 ability because we won't be doing much lvl 80 content? Do you actually think before you type? Because that just doesn't make sense. Your whole post is flawed. This isn't like some item we get and only have to deal with for a temporary amount of time. No, this is a level 80 ability that we will be using for 2+ years.

Also why are you insulting people for getting to level cap and calling them cowards? You are unnecessarily hostile and you need to back off.

You misread my post entirely. I am calling people who don't main samurai cowards.

I am not saying it's ok for the level 80 ability to be bad (and Shoha is not bad, I am happier to get it than I was to get a little under half of the other capstone abilities of SB, and well over half if you want to roll hand and land into it) but that if you think the level 80 ability sucks, then swapping it to an earlier position makes no sense because then you have to put up with the suck more.

I am also saying that capstone abilities should be special is also a fallacious argument to begin with, because you spend so little time leveling and it isn't exactly some huge achievement. The concept that Shoha would be ok as long as it isn't 80 is baffling. The level you get the skill only matters as you are leveling and then in LDR and has no real bearing on how fun an ability is. You aren't going to suddenly be head over heels for sick meditate idling just because it's 72 instead of 80.

[Wynn_Storm]

You misread my post entirely. I am calling people who don't main samurai cowards.

I am not saying it's ok for the level 80 ability to be bad (and Shoha is not bad, I am happier to get it than I was to get a little under half of the other capstone abilities of SB, and well over half if you want to roll hand and land into it) but that if you think the level 80 ability sucks, then swapping it to an earlier position makes no sense because then you have to put up with the suck more.

How much do you think people are going be doing lvl 72-79 content? There are a few dungeons and primals that's it. A max level ability is supposed to be impactful and a game changer for the job. Anyway you look at it, i think Shoha misses the mark completely. Sure we don't know for sure how this ability will playout completely, but like i said earlier this all speculation. And i think its fair for people to be a bit skeptical/worried.

[Arkdra]

How much do you think people are going be doing lvl 72-79 content? There are a few dungeons and primals that's it. A max level ability is supposed to be impactful and a game changer for the job. Anyway you look at it, i think Shoha misses the mark completely. Sure we don't know for sure how this ability will playout completely, but like i said earlier this all speculation. And i think its fair for people to be a bit skeptical/worried.

All the time? A decent chance every time I LDR? Whenever a new player needs it and I'm bored? For glamours? Presumably for cat book stickers if they carry on with that. And for every time this happens, I would definitely much rather have Senei than Shoha kicking around just to appease weird internet people and their hangup on an arbitrary number.

If you want Shoha fixed, stick to providing potential solutions to it, but don't go trying to get it swapped around, that doesn't make the ability any better and just shoots us all in the foot, long term.

[Liam_Harper]

Also can't believe people are getting wrapped up in, "Our level 80 ability should be better!!!" This is absurd.

There's nothing absurd in an opinion or feedback. I'm very happy with Samurai overall, but that doesn't mean one ability has to be subpar. Visually it looks great and there are plenty of straight-forward ideas where we could throw it out and feel powerful.

Personally I feel meditate has a function. It serves a purpose. Maybe casual players barely notice it exists and the devs want to force us into it, but it feels unnecessary. Something that could actually be interesting was if Shoha was the reverse and hit like a truck, then added the Weakness debuff that you had to Meditate to recover from. It would even double as a finisher if you were really good at timing.

If they don't rework this ability it's not the end of the world. I use Meditate when I can, so if there's a window I'll get my negligible 500 potency per fight. But I'm not exactly jumping around in excitement at the prospect, so there's nothing wrong with passing on my personal feedback.