Disappointment of Shoha/Feedback. Samurai Lv80 Skill.

[Mistyregions]

I think everyone is missing the point, you no longer can convert into Kenki so now mediate is the only way other than skills to generate it. You will have to use it, it cuts back on your dps and that's intentional I imagine.

[Wynn_Storm]

I'm amazed at the amount of people that have already played the expansion and tested things out enough to say with certainty that they're bad, at least according to how adamant they are.

People are allowed to give their opinion and speculate. This is a lot of gut reactions and its fine. Most of the people here have valid complaints, go look at reddit and look at the salty AST and SCH players, then come back to this thread. You need to calm down.

I think everyone is missing the point, you no longer can convert into Kenki so now mediate is the only way other than skills to generate it. You will have to use it, it cuts back on your dps and that's intentional I imagine.

You don't need to convert sen into Kenki because Ikishoten exists now and just gives a flat 50 kenki every 60 seconds. That's almost as much as converting all 3 sens into Kenki. Whether intentional or not, it looks bad and might feel just as bad. Like many has said this ability looks like a niche ability, and to some people that's fine. But as a level 80 ability it just seems so underwhelming compared to most other jobs.

[Colino]

People are allowed to give their opinion and speculate. This is a lot of gut reactions and its fine. Most of the people here have valid complaints, go look at reddit and look at the salty AST and SCH players, then come back to this thread. You need to calm down.

Oh trust me, I've seen then subreddit, we have those AST threads here too! It doesn't upset or irk me, I just find it entertaining. We have all been through this before right?

I never implied people can't give their opinion and speculate, that's the most fun part of pre-release! What isn't fun is seeing someone having a genuine meltdown over something they haven't had a full experience of yet. I just can't imagine being that upset at something before I even try it.

Potency wise this would be a great level 80 ability, in an ideal world. I think overall it is a really cool skill, just way too niche to be satisfying or something you really want to pull off (but then again we've had very disappointing max level skills before too).

[Wynn_Storm]

Oh trust me, I've seen then subreddit, we have those AST threads here too! It doesn't upset or irk me, I just find it entertaining. We have all been through this before right?

I never implied people can't give their opinion and speculate, that's the most fun part of pre-release! What isn't fun is seeing someone having a genuine meltdown over something they haven't had a full experience of yet. I just can't imagine being that upset at something before I even try it.

I didn't see anyone having a complete meltdown. Maybe our definitions of meltdown are different. What i picture is someone screaming about how the high sky is falling. But the OP gave a valid complaint listing examples of fights to show where the ability might be used or useful. I think overall as complaint threads go this one is very tamed. And maybe i'm bit biased because i do main Sam even though i play everything.

Also maybe my initial response at the end was a bit much, sometimes how something is said isn't translated properly via text.

[Colino]

I didn't see anyone having a complete meltdown. Maybe our definitions of meltdown are different. What i picture is someone screaming about how the high sky is falling. But the OP gave a valid complaint listing examples of fights to show where the ability might be used or useful. I think overall as complaint threads go this one is very tamed. And maybe i'm bit biased because i do main Sam even though i play everything.

Yeah, you're right actually. I may have been melding this thread mentally with another thread, considering how many proper moan-fests I've read through today (some of them really fun mind you!).

I mained Bard since they existed in 1.x (1.20 I think? Too lazy look it up) until SB release, when I switched to SAM, so you can imagine how excited I was for that job. I still love it and I think giving meditate a "function" is neat no matter how they pull it off. I think the main problem with this skill is the level you unlock it at, more than any issue with the skill itself.

[Wynn_Storm]

Yeah, you're right actually. I may have been melding this thread mentally with another thread, considering how many proper moan-fests I've read through today (some of them really fun mind you!).

I mained Bard since they existed in 1.x (1.20 I think? Too lazy look it up) until SB release, when I switched to SAM, so you can imagine how excited I was for that job. I still love it and I think giving meditate a "function" is neat no matter how they pull it off. I think the main problem with this skill is the level you unlock it at, more than any issue with the skill itself.

I agree with your statement regarding the level the ability is obtained.

Honestly i would switch Hissatsu: Senei with Shoha.

So at 72 we get Shoha, and at 80 we get Hissatsu: Senei instead.

I think it would at least feel more rewarding. Senei is just the ST version of Guren. So i feel like it'd make sense since Guren is the level 70 ability, and then Senei being the level 80 ability.

But that's just my take on it.

[xxvaynxx]

I think everyone is missing the point, you no longer can convert into Kenki so now mediate is the only way other than skills to generate it. You will have to use it, it cuts back on your dps and that's intentional I imagine.

Umm....this skill has nothing to do with not being about to eat your sen? I assume that's what you mean. If you're talking about we have no skill to give us kenki, haga got changed into Ikishoten which gives us 50 kenki.

Mechanically, I think it's more than fine. It's a reward for positioning optimally during boss downtime which adds a little extra height to the skill ceiling for the job.

Mechnaically its not fine at all, even if the potency was good or decent, its pretty much a dead skill on any fight with no downtime. If the first tick potency was 400 THEN it would be fine actually(With just potency) because you'll be able to fish for it between GCD; assuming meditate gives you a tick, because if you didn't know. Its by server tick and you know what that means? sometimes you won't even get 5 ticks, yes. It has happened to me before.

This doesn't reward for skill at all, its just a silly idea to probably not just make it a basic oGCD.
Haga was the skill that added any skill ceiling to samurai and now that's gone, this job is pretty much even more easy as there is no excuse to not use Ikishoten.

[Barraind]

I think everyone is missing the point, you no longer can convert into Kenki so now mediate is the only way other than skills to generate it. You will have to use it, it cuts back on your dps and that's intentional I imagine.

You're losing 10 a minute, but it's also adjusting the emphasis on Kenki spending windows (you probably want to kaiten every midare now) so that 10 may appear to be a larger potency loss than it is in practice.

1 Kenki is roughly 12.8 potency as a spammable attack or 20 potency when coupled with a 60 second cooldown, so meditate into shoha at max is currently 1140 potency over 7 gcd's and 2 backloaded ogcd's.

That is not good unless you're getting 3 (it's probably 4) or more meditate stacks with 0 loss of potency every 60 seconds.

And if fights are going to have 12-18% of the duration as forced downtime in that predictable of a manner...


ADDITIONALLY! If the downtime requires movement during or after, it will result in no or reduced shoha.