Kneejerk reaction to PLD changes.

[Kabooa]

So you trade 4-5 defensive cool downs for one.
How about keeping the cooldowns and getting an extra one?
I mean, I do play tank, so I expect either def cool downs or utility as new skills not dmg.

It would be nice if the new offensive skills built out of defensive options.

Pretty as paladin is looking, there's not enough SHIELD SLAMMING going on.

[Bright-Flower]

It would be nice if the new offensive skills built out of defensive options.

Pretty as paladin is looking, there's not enough SHIELD SLAMMING going on.

I am a bit sad losing shield bas/swipe. At least we have the new charge (where I think the animation is us running into the enemy with our shield but hard to tell) and shield lob still I guess.

[Izsha]

So you trade 4-5 defensive cool downs for one.
How about keeping the cooldowns and getting an extra one?
I mean, I do play tank, so I expect either def cool downs or utility as new skills not dmg.

It's not as simple as counting the number. They adjusted many. Shelltron is 6 seconds. The 25% buff from drk assisting you is FAR more frequent than your 3 minute bulwark. Those are not a 1 for one in actual effectiveness. The war bubble uptime is cray.

They got rid of very weak and/or long CD skills. Convalescence every 2 min for weak effect. Bulwark had a 1000 year CD. The parry action was weak. Following? A 25% drk shield for every tabk buster is far better than bulwark. The always on war bubble is way better than lolparry and conv.

People keep obsessing over how many skills pld lost but conveniently forget how weak and low uptime they were. All that really points out is how much button bloat pld had in its kit for these skills that can be easily trimmed without much affect on gameplay.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I thought pld kep shield bash, it was in the list provided by gamer escape.

I'm pretty happy with the pld changes. I stopped mining it due to 4.0s changes, after having raided for 2 expansions as pld. I'm switching back with 5.0.

[Ivellior]

It's not as simple as counting the number. They adjusted many. Shelltron is 6 seconds. The 25% buff from drk assisting you is FAR more frequent than your 3 minute bulwark. Those are not a 1 for one in actual effectiveness. The war bubble uptime is cray.

They got rid of very weak and/or long CD skills. Convalescence every 2 min for weak effect. Bulwark had a 1000 year CD. The parry action was weak. Following? A 25% drk shield for every tabk buster is far better than bulwark. The always on war bubble is way better than lolparry and conv.

People keep obsessing over how many skills pld lost but conveniently forget how weak and low uptime they were. All that really points out is how much button bloat pld had in its kit for these skills that can be easily trimmed without much affect on gameplay.

Actually not, if you stack the other cooldowns the effect is much better then single one. Also the other cooldowns are always and not only when having another tank with you.
And if the those cooldowns were so useless then why did they took them all from PLD in 2.0 to give them to all the other tanks? If there were useless as you said they would have been trimmed in the first or second expansion rather than now.
Also besides the fact that they removed those cooldowns they also nerfed the existing one (Sentinel to 30% and cover).
Might as well remove some dps skills if the want to trim them instead of defensive ones.

Also the whole point of tanking is holding enmity and mitigating damage, both of which were nerfed.

[SunAurel]

So much bad info. Sio is still 90 sec. Not 60. Complaining about potency and war dps? Royal authority has higher pot than fell cleave. .

Royal authority is not 5x guaranteed direct crit tho.

Cover should not use oath. It's meant as a save. You can't save someone from something if you were at 60 oath and just used Sheltron. You literally have to always have at least 50 oath because it might save the run.
By tying it to a resource they are going against their own intention for cover as life saver because you can't use it "in the spur of the moment when it's necessary", your other tank can't rely on your cover if something goes wrong as well.

[TouchandFeel]

In regards to "Why ever use Cover?", the reason is because you can use it to get total greater mitigation for a period for 50 gauge by stacking Sentinel or Sentinel+Rampart.

Intervention + Rampart: 10% + 10% = ~20% total mitigation for the player taking the damage.
Intervention + Sentinel: 10% + 15% = ~25% total mitigation for the player taking the damage.

Cover + Rampart: 20% total mitigation for the player taking the damage. Approx. the same as Intervention.
Cover + Sentinel: 30% total mitigation for the player taking the damage. ~5% more than Intervention.

If you were then to stack both Rampart and Sentinel with Cover, you would see even bigger gains over using both with Intervention.

In addition to that, Intervention only has a duration of 6s while Cover has a duration of 12s, so you get more out of the extra defensives you burn for it. 6s works fine for single hit busters but for situations where the high damage may be over a period of time, like busters that are a sequence of hard-hitting attacks, that 6s may not be enough but 12s will cover it (no pun intended).

While I agree that Cover definitely got hit with the nerf bat, it seems like it still has it's uses and as long as you are pairing it with Sentinel or Sentinel and Rampart, it is actually preferable to Intervention.

The way I see it working is that Cover is planned for the big hits that you will be assisting as OT, planning to stack Cover+Rampart+Sentinel, while Intervention and Intervention+Rampart is used whenever you have the gauge.
Basically frequent and consistent with Intervention, and planned but infrequent for Cover.

[Izsha]

Picking and choosing again. Sent 'nerfed' to 30%. Forgot to notice the drop in timer from 3 minutes to 2. Come on now. Try not to be that plainly biased.

It's not that the CDs were useless, it's that you had to combine multiple weak effects to match what you have now. "Tank busters coming better pop convalescence! That will save me! Oh wait. It wont. Maybe bulwark! Well that's not even guaranteed to proc.

You know what's better than bulwark for 15 sec every 3 min? (5 sec per minute uptime). A 100% block that lasts 5 seconds instead of 1 hit that you can use more than once a minute. Shelltrons buff upgrade alone easily replaces bulwark in overall mitigation, reliability, uptime, and frequency. Sentinel got a 33% uptime boost for a 25% reduced effectiveness. That's 3 tabkbusters in 6 min with 5sec shell+sent instead of now only 2 with sent and single hit shelltron.

THEN you tack on a 25% (up from 10%) shield from your drk. Or a strong regen and small shield from gun. Or a 10% passive mit and regen from war.

You lost buttons. You gained mitigation as a team and are more or less where you used to be when solo.

Did you also forget you have 20% mitigation PERMANENTLY as a level 1 trait without the penalties of tank stance? Of course you failed to mention that.

Look at the big picture. You are only seeing what was lost and completely missing that it was given back in other ways by buffs to existing abilities, passive traits, and your team. Tanks will perform perfectly well in mitigation in 4 mans and easily much better off in pairs than ever before.

[Daralii]

Realistically speaking, as someone that doesn't play tank much, how useful is the Shelltron trait? It's obviously very good in 5-mans, but outside of big pull scenarios like that, how many times will you even get attacked in 6 seconds? With Bulwark removed, it seems more like a net zero than anything.

[Izsha]

Monsters continually auto attack (i forget exactly, but I think its every 3 seconds). Every pld can tell you the horror stories of popping shelltron only to have an auto attack wipe it 0.5s before a big hit. This will never happen again.

Also, every tank can tell you how the auto after the tank buster kills you because it is often nearly instantanious. Sometime you dont even see the animation as it is still doing the buster animation, but the number still pops up for slapping you again. Pld never ad the same mitigation for the before and after hits around the busters. This effectively removes that problem.

In addition, there are a handful of multi hit busters that were rough (think of all the hits in ahk morn for example). Theres a fair number of those types of tank busters scattered from dungeons to raids. This is a large buff for those attacks.

Basically, any time you use shelltron just for fluff you are guranteed to mit 2 autos with it (unless you pop it while its casting a spell and therefore not attacking. Shame on you!). And you will now always get the post buster auto when used for busters. Most busters have cast bars so there isnt a 'before' attack. But on any untelegraphed power hit (most boss cleaves fit this) those will have autos before and after shelltron will now cover.

Tldr: You will always get at least 1 more hit of mit (after buster) and sometimes 2(before and after of a buster with no telegraph cast).