Shadowbringer: Summoner Changes Discussion

[Kalise]

It's also worth noting that Energy Drain/Siphon only have 30s CD's instead of Aetherflow's prior 60s CD. Meaning 60 seconds per Bahamut phase (30s post level 72)

DWT also noteworthy, gives 2.5s reduced cast time. Meaning instant-cast Tri-Bind (Renamed Outburst) (With Ruination also buffing Outburst)

Devotion is changed and now simply increases party members damage by 5%

Phoenix can only be summoned after Bahamut and lasts for 15 seconds.

This means that Egi's are almost removed from the game. Given that per 30 seconds, you'll be able to get a Bahamut out from DWT. Bahamut lasts 20 seconds, Phoenix then lasts 15 seconds. That's 45 seconds of Demi uptime. So... Basically you just wait long enough to spam out Egi Assault I/II and Enkindle and then get rid of your Egi.

Also, at this point, it might actually end up that you might simply end DWT immediately via Deathflare given that you no longer get bonus damage from it and can get it back again to get a Bahamut so quickly.

[Jandor]

Phoenix can only be summoned after Bahamut and lasts for 15 seconds.

This means that Egi's are almost removed from the game. Given that per 30 seconds, you'll be able to get a Bahamut out from DWT. Bahamut lasts 20 seconds, Phoenix then lasts 15 seconds. That's 45 seconds of Demi uptime. So... Basically you just wait long enough to spam out Egi Assault I/II and Enkindle and then get rid of your Egi.

Also, at this point, it might actually end up that you might simply end DWT immediately via Deathflare given that you no longer get bonus damage from it and can get it back again to get a Bahamut so quickly.

Phoenix trance puts Dreadwyrm Trance on cooldown, you can just about catch it on Larryzaurs SMN video.
So after you've finished with Phoenix you've got 45s of filler before you can start your demi cycle back up again.

Roughly 45s on, 45s off?

--

Side note, anyone else disappointed it's phoenix? I'm kind of sick of the coil theme.

[Elenoe]

Roughly 45s on, 45s off?

they share CD, don't they? So it sounds more like

15s DWT -> 20s Bahamut -> 25s fillers -> 20s FBT+Phoenix -> 40s fillers

[Jandor]

they share CD, don't they? So it sounds more like

15s DWT -> 20s Bahamut -> 25s fillers -> 20s FBT+Phoenix -> 40s fillers

But it sounds like demis (Bahamut at least) are somewhat weaker now if "wyrmwaves" are on GCD (which may or may not be affected by FBT as it goes along with phoenix - not sure if FBT is 15s or 20s at that time).

15s DWT - 45s gap where you can slot 20s of Bahamut - 15s Phoenix - 45s gap where you can't slot 20s of Bahamut.

That 2nd gap might be a bit dull tbh. Don't mind me guys, just casting 18x ruins back to back.

[Gallus]

Phoenix lasts 20 seconds, not 15, there's an enhanced firebird trance trait that increases 5 seconds on your phoenix.

[Elenoe]

I know, and I'm a bit afraid of consequences:

there is no way demis can be aligned (bahamut cannot go on DWT while phoenix has to) so the "buff windows" (devotion included) as well as 4 festers/aetherflows (every 60s) won't align with them well.

One of them will only have 2 festers + energy drain for weaving. (The other can have all 4 festers + energy drain.)

[Gallus]

You don't care about aligning anything now on your bahamut/phoenix phases because the demis don't akh morn/scarlet flame on OGCDs, only GCDs. Might as well burn your aetherflow stacks the very moment you have them now, no reason to delay anything.

[Gallus]

Phoenix trance puts Dreadwyrm Trance on cooldown.

I swear to god, this disappoints me to no end. Like, they could've perfectly done a rotation with DWT (15 sec) -> Demi Bahamut (20 sec) -> Demi Phoenix (20 sec), and suddenly, everything pieces all well together because your DWT CD is on 60 seconds and all that takes 55 seconds, so you can literally repeat that cycle again (and you would've used your Egis during your DWT mainly). It would've been such an interesting, balanced and exciting rotation.

Instead, they make DWT and Phoenix share CDs forcing us to go on a filler ruin spam rotation the next 40 seconds after Phoenix. WTF!?

I'm so, so, so, so disappointed right now.

So it's the same garbage all over again, with SMN having DPS peaks all over the place. "Casts Bahamut/Phoenix", Susano uses his rock ability on you ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°). Here please, watch your DPS sink into oblivion once that happens. Would have it killed them to slightly lower the potencies but keep your DPS more like a straight line instead of having these peaks followed by a snorefest/filler?

[Elenoe]

So it's the same garbage all over again, with SMN having DPS peaks all over the place

given the GCD you've mentioned it's not the same. First you have your "bursts" every 60s instead of 120s (and much sooner after start). And they are not as significant as they were. Wyrmblade was strong because it was cast a lot more often then standard garuda autoattack. If it isn't now demi (or loosing it) won't matter as much as it matters now.

[XenabelleS]

I'm devastated.

I really can't see any way that I'll be able to main summoner through the MSQ as I've done since I started due to the loss of a tank pet.

I play summoner because I don't like mobs hitting me or having to constantly dodge, when I'm playing. I mean sure, I have to do it with every other class and I use the chocobo liberally when doing that, but that isn't available in the solo instances.

I don't think I would have been able to do the 4.x solo fights at the end of Stormblood if I hadn't had Titan to tank.

I mean, sure, as these other pets have risen in prominence, it's become more challenging. For example, in neither of those scenarios was I able to call Bahamut because Titan would have vanished and I would have taken agro and been killed. But having the pocket tank was WAY more important to my success than not being able to use my full tool kit.

There are two hopes :
1) If Physic has become a real heal (scales on Int), then there might be a way.
2) If Titan's Earthen Armor + Pheonix medica is strong enough to keep up with all the incoming damage, SMN might be playable at 80 (when we get Pheonix)

But for levelling... I just don't see any way. I saw Larry's video of both the range and melee mobs attacking his character instead of the pet but that was a level 80 character fighting level 71 mobs. At level, I just don't see it as possible.

So I am now deciding between RDM and WHM as my main instead. RDM means I just need to get the weapon whereas WHM will need a fair bit more gear (I bought a full 380 set for SMN in what I was hoping was preparation for the xpac.

I am so very disappointed today. The worst fears from the live letter have come true.