The new Mogstation items represent a painful period for Koreans, please read.

[Gihwezi]

No it doesn't, most people who are debating with the OP (the people that actually read the OP's post and just don't jump down her throat), even the OP themselves are being reasonable and polite, it's the usual same dogpiling individuals who don't really care about the topic, they just enjoy causing drama, who are turning the thread sour. I'm not saying don't disagree, some people just don't know how to behave when they do so.

Yes, it does. Why you seem to think this is the appropriate place to have this sort of conversation is entirely beyond me. Whether, you, the other people here, or I agree or disagree with the OP means nothing. What does mean something is that it very apparent is that the OP shouldn't have opened this dialogue on the forums to begin with because, like I said, this is not the place to bring this conversation, and you KNOW this. Oh some people are being civil with the OP? That's great! But don't play coy, you've said it yourself, this is the forums, not a place where people can actually healthily debate.

And I just know you didn't bring up the topic of debate in here. Obviously OP wasn't looking to debate when they made this thread to begin with, which is a problem in and of itself, but don't act like this was supposed to start healthy back and forth between people who just 'love to debate.' Because it wasn't. So don't try it.

It's been several pages now, people are regurgitating the thing the other person said before them; this thread needs to be locked. I did not stutter.

EDIT: I didn't see your edit before this, but my point still stands.

[Rockette]

Why do you believe this sort of conversation should not be held where people can see it?

[Gihwezi]

Why do you believe this sort of conversation should not be held where people can see it?

Why do you believe I said that, or are you just putting words in my mouth? Read what I wrote again. This is not the appropriate place (singular, one (1) place) to have this conversation. I did not say this conversation should not be held at all. And it's clearly being held elsewhere, where people can see it. In multiple places, even! Well, would you look at that!

[Rockette]

Ok, let me rephrase.

What does mean something is that it very apparent is that the OP shouldn't have opened this dialogue on the forums to begin with because, like I said, this is not the place to bring this conversation, and you KNOW this.

Why is this forum not somewhere that OP should have opened a dialogue on? Why is this not the place to bring this conversation?

[Gihwezi]

Ok, let me rephrase.



Why is this forum not somewhere that OP should have opened a dialogue on? Why is this not the place to bring this conversation?

I said so in the post you quoted me from............................

Since I need to summarize myself again apparently: ahem, this is the forums. To come here for "debate," to come here to inform when people are already set in their ways / beliefs and will typically respond the way that typical forum-goers do is not productive. Like I said for the 5th time, people are echoing what people have said before one another, it's the same stuff being brought up over and over again, and in the midst of this thread, there already seems to have been some sort of silver lining, or as close to an understanding as there can be here. There is literally nothing else to get out of this thread, except people regurgitating the same points that have already been made (or, again, jumping down the op's throat). So for what's best for all parties involved is that the thread be closed.

This conversation is doing better on other parts of the internet, where there is less THIS going on, where dialogues are opening, and where people are learning far better than what is happening here. And that was inevitable, because this is the forums, where civility is very rare. This is a very hot topic that doesn't fit this climate (which is made VERY clear, by some of the responses in this thread).

[Rockette]

I said so in the post you quoted me from............................

Since I need to summarize myself again apparently: ahem, this is the forums. To come here for "debate," to come here to inform when people are already set in their ways / beliefs and will typically respond the way that typical forum-goers do is not productive.

So, if you have an opinion that might upset people, stay quiet and don't try? Even if it's about something as important as cultural history. Because "people are already set in their ways". Lol, ok then. Crawl back into your pen and stay mild, little sheep.

This conversation is doing better on other parts of the internet, where there is less THIS going on, where dialogues are opening, and where people are learning far better than what is happening here. And that was inevitable, because this is the forums, where civility is very rare. This is a very hot topic that doesn't fit this climate (which is made VERY clear, by some of the responses in this thread).

Where, exactly? I just went to look on FFXIV reddit, I see nothing. I haven't seen this anywhere else, actually. I'm glad OP posted because I got the opportunity to learn about this issue and speak to my Korean friends in game about it. They told me about why they've chosen not to purchase this outfit and I got to hear a little about their Grandparents which was really interesting.

Then we have people posting about how it is also a part of Japanese local history, again, interesting and relevant to the topic, bringing in a counter point.

Silencing people, banning books (or threads!), is incredibly facist thinking (ironic, given the discussion at hand). You should take the opportunity to grow, rather than get all fired up bleating about forum locks. This thread and its debate has been beneficial.

[Gihwezi]

So, if you have an opinion that might upset people, stay quiet and don't try? Even if it's about something as important as cultural history. Because "people are already set in their ways". Lol, ok then.

me: this isn't productive. this thread should be locked because nothing is coming from it and people are either repeating each other or beating the op down.
you, somehow, even though my words are crystal clear and I never said anything you wrote in this reply: so you mean say nothing? got it.

?????????????????????

You continue to put words in my mouth.

Again, for the second time, I never said people shouldn't talk about this. I've never said people should shut up. I learned about this whole thing a while ago when this situation was first stirring elsewhere, not on the forum. Over the course of recent days I've seen conversations open about it and threads being made elsewhere. It's good that you learned something here in this thread! Magnificent, even, I'm glad you've walked away with new information. But none of that delegitimizes what I've said.

I think it's funny that you literally think I'm trying to silence people, and that "banning books" literally came out of complete nowhere when I definitely never said that either. You don't know anything about me, where I come from, what my background is, or who I am. You throw the word fascist around real freely for someone trying to be high and mighty and needing to make things up to do so. I suggest you get better reading comprehension.

Nice edits, I'm sure you had to think long and hard of those sick burns huh? Feel real proud of yourself don't you?

[Iscah]

Why do you believe I said that, or are you just putting words in my mouth? Read what I wrote again. This is not the appropriate place (singular, one (1) place) to have this conversation. I did not say this conversation should not be held at all. And it's clearly being held elsewhere, where people can see it. In multiple places, even! Well, would you look at that!

Why should the official public forum for a game not be considered the appropriate place to bring up an issue regarding the game?

Trying to shut down the debate by saying "nobody here will listen to you, so you shouldn't be here" is self-defeating. It's creating the attitude that drives away debate in the first place.

The official forum absolutely should be the place where this kind of discussion can be held - where Square Enix officials can see it being discussed, and perhaps make an official statement on it if they think public opinion is warranted. (Granted, they don't often do that, but sometimes they do. And there's more potential for it here than on some other site.)

Clearly some people here are open to the discussion, so again, saying "this thread should be locked because the people on the forum don't want to debate it" makes no sense. Clearly they do.

[Gihwezi]

Why should the official public forum for a game not be considered the appropriate place to bring up an issue regarding the game?

Trying to shut down the debate by saying "nobody here will listen to you, so you shouldn't be here" is self-defeating. It's creating the attitude that drives away debate in the first place.

The official forum absolutely should be the place where this kind of discussion can be held - where Square Enix officials can see it being discussed, and perhaps make an official statement on it if they think public opinion is warranted. (Granted, they don't often do that, but sometimes they do. And there's more potential for it here than on some other site.)

Clearly some people here are open to the discussion, so again, saying "this thread should be locked because the people on the forum don't want to debate it" makes no sense. Clearly they do.

Yeah see, some of this would hold water if A.) The issue wasn't already addressed by the team who made the choice to do what they did and started the issue (see: some pages back, so this issue has already been gleaned and discussed, the name changed, as what was discovered some pages back). And B.) by the time I had commented that this thread should be locked, conversation had already been had, and like I said, comments were made to wrap this all up in a neat little bow.

The conversation now is clearly going around in a circle. If you still think what is happening now is in any way productive to the main issue, well then, idk what to tell you.

[Iscah]

Yeah see, some of this would hold water if A.) The issue wasn't already addressed by the team who made the choice to do what they did and started the issue (see: some pages back, so this issue has already been gleaned and discussed, the name changed, as what was discovered some pages back). And B.) by the time I had commented that this thread should be locked, conversation had already been had, and like I said, comments were made to wrap this all up in a neat little bow.

The conversation now is clearly going around in a circle. If you still think what is happening now is in any way productive to the main issue, well then, idk what to tell you.

Locking discussions when they are "done" just isn't how public forums tend to work, unless there is a very attentive moderator and a strict policy about how to judge when it is appropriate to close the thread.

It also shuts down any additional, genuine discussion that people might have on the matter. Maybe they have questions. Maybe they want to respond to something.

Generally speaking, closing down discussions like that is just going to make people start a second thread called "response to locked discussion X", and clutter up the forum.