The new Mogstation items represent a painful period for Koreans, please read.

[Dfess]

These clothes were so basic back when they were worn they were used as school clothes, street clothes and military clothes. It's not offensive, your just trying to turn something into something it isn't.

Not only is SE paying homage to what their ancestors wore (as well as what koreans wore mind you), they are a Japanese company and it's their style.

It would be like getting mad at Activision for having the soldiers in Call of Duty games wear military uniforms because people who killed people wore that.

[RyuSaarva]

I think you should be offended that we have mongols in the game, that is far worse even if we had time travelling nazis.

[Jaywalker]

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Honestly, I'd like to ask both of you this particularly since you have different stances on the subject.

I prefer to be private about my own specific background (I'm not Native American), but I can say I'm talking from a position of being an ethnic minority who is very connected with my own culture and has lost relatives to genocide because of ethnicity. Wouldn't say at all normally, only mentioning here because part of how I reflect is in a "well how would I feel if this was in the context of my situation" way.

Right now there's a kind of crappy idea going around that if you don't belong to a culture you can't be inspired by, reference, or interact with that culture at all. That just leads to segregation and more limited opportunities to learn about or appreciate other cultures I think. There are some areas that are sacred or carry otherwise really heavy cultural significance that I can understand being careful with, but otherwise seems like people could stand to calm down.

I know you can both only speak for yourselves. I also know situations vary, like how some tribes might place heavy significance on headdresses while others don't. I do know I've seen situations where people not from a culture might (for example) casually run around in religious bridal gear from another culture. Stuff like that makes the person read like an ass for trivializing, and it's worse if that happens in cultures where people are struggling to reconnect with heritage. Especially with there being different tribes, I think a lot of non-Native Americans don't know nuance and don't know how to even start learning it. So there's been a blanket reaction of "everything is off limits" that doesn't really help.

Seems like you've both put thought into this with different positions. Next level negative stereotype stuff as a "can you not" area seems obvious to avoid. I'm just curious if you have any advice on how to ID spots where it is clear cut "this is commercial and fun and fine" versus "some reasonable people place a lot of weight on this thing and it might be good to tread carefully" when it comes to Native American influence. I figure there's gotta be some sweet spot between everything being weighty and nothing being weighty, but the loudest voices tend to be the ones who are the most sensitive so it's hard to figure out any kind of fair reaction.

[Wyssahtyn]

clothes are a sign of oppression against the naturalist community. remove all the clothes in the game.

[Lunalepsy]

Is this thread for real? o 3 o

[Wilford111]

The dungeon "The Ghymlit Dark" is an obvious reference to wartimes especially from WWI and WWII. My grandfather, being an Army war veteran, gets ptsd easily from things that could potentially trigger him. This dungeon has many things that could trigger real ptsd from thousands of war veterans. Please remove it from the game.

I'm not trying to get it removed from the game, I'm merely trying to start a conversation and bring attention to it.

[Reimmi]

clothes are a sign of oppression against the naturalist community. remove all the clothes in the game.

I'm all for going full kill la kill
death to clothing!

[kijukitten]

Honestly, I'd like to ask both of you this particularly since you have different stances on the subject.

I prefer to be private about my own specific background (I'm not Native American), but I can say I'm talking from a position of being an ethnic minority who is very connected with my own culture and has lost relatives to genocide because of ethnicity. Wouldn't say at all normally, only mentioning here because part of how I reflect is in a "well how would I feel if this was in the context of my situation" way.

Right now there's a kind of crappy idea going around that if you don't belong to a culture you can't be inspired by, reference, or interact with that culture at all. That just leads to segregation and more limited opportunities to learn about or appreciate other cultures I think. There are some areas that are sacred or carry otherwise really heavy cultural significance that I can understand being careful with, but otherwise seems like people could stand to calm down.

I know you can both only speak for yourselves. I also know situations vary, like how some tribes might place heavy significance on headdresses while others don't. I do know I've seen situations where people not from a culture might (for example) casually run around in religious bridal gear from another culture. Stuff like that makes the person read like an ass for trivializing, and it's worse if that happens in cultures where people are struggling to reconnect with heritage. Especially with there being different tribes, I think a lot of non-Native Americans don't know nuance and don't know how to even start learning it. So there's been a blanket reaction of "everything is off limits" that doesn't really help.

Seems like you've both put thought into this with different positions. Next level negative stereotype stuff as a "can you not" area seems obvious to avoid. I'm just curious if you have any advice on how to ID spots where it is clear cut "this is commercial and fun and fine" versus "some reasonable people place a lot of weight on this thing and it might be good to tread carefully" when it comes to Native American influence. I figure there's gotta be some sweet spot between everything being weighty and nothing being weighty, but the loudest voices tend to be the ones who are the most sensitive so it's hard to figure out any kind of fair reaction.

i honestly think the whole Separation of culture thing is incredibly harmful, and is counterproductive to mass representation, the way I see this is one of the only games to represent Native Americans. and i don't think that restricting the idea of the clothes or culture is reasonable at all. and honestly i find the backlash offensive in its self, like the sombrero Mario thing. the forced removal of inclusivity feels like they are sending make to the "native only drinking fountain"

[kijukitten]

Just because a thing is not offensive to one tribal member doesn't mean you speak for all 1200 tribes, all 6 million of us, or even your own tribe. Does your tribe have a history of warbonnets? Mine does, and we have very strict rules about it, considering it akin to US military medals (See stolen valor for examples.)

I've discussed this at length before here

a few things before the rant to add to be read first I understand and respect your opinions on the matter and do not think you are wrong. and Ill admit that i can only speak for those members i've spoken with and myself, however you cannot claim to speak for all of us either. (ill also admit my not caring doesn't necessarily trump your caring)
While i hear what you are saying, however i also think it highly depends on context, and really don't see how this has crossed a line, other types of honorable memorabilia have been shown in this and similar games, As an Ojibwe Anishinaabe we do have War Bonnets and they are extremely important to us. the way i see it is they arn't exactly doing a bugs bunny spear chucker (extremely offensive), again i said most of the people I've spoken with about this. i will concede that some may take offense to the Bonnets existing in game, However to me its like Chief Wahoo and the Redskins logo. Regardless of if you found the Redskins logo offensive personally, i think we can all admit that Wahoo was objectively worse. i Respect your opinion, dispite my views, because i recognize your argument, and feel that alot of the points are very valid. but i feel very strongly to not letting outrage be a huge factor into my life.

[Ashpd]

And there's that theme again. Can't you guys separate real life from the game? We have clothes here that are written in the game's lore. Which takes place here. Stop being insulted for any reason and without it. I understand that this can be terrible for your nation. For my nation too there are things in this game that are offensive. However, just be quiet about that. It's not the real world, it's a game. And it has its own things. Otherwise, you'll get muddy in this dirt and don't have enjoyment from your life.