GM Warning for 'Offensive Language', No actual reason given

[SturmChurro]

That's the pragmatic, smart thing to do for me as an individual.

Which doesn't mean that I will support nor condone it. And if the game ends up teaching people it's better to be 'passive aggressive', then yeah.. quite sure that's not the right message to send lol.

Hey I don't agree with it, but it's better safe than sorry. I have personal experience of this...

I will completely backspace an entire response in game if I think it qualifies as "profanity". There have been times I just wanted to say some slang, or cuss a bit like a regular adult does in regular life, but I'll look at my chat and just delete it. Not worth risking my account. Profanity filter or not. If you get in a spout with anyone assume they will report you (they usually do).

[Drayce1]

Alright, so let's start this with the logs of the conversation I had between the GM and myself;




Since he's said I should direct myself to the official forums, here I am.

My issue is that I'm not being told what I was warned for. To warn/punish somebody for 'offensive language', with no clear detail of what it was that was 'in breach' of these offensive language 'rules', makes it;

A: Impossible for me to adjust my behavior given I don't know what was said that was wrong

and

B: Forces me to refuse to communicate *At all* if I don't want to risk to offend anyone.

Now for those of you that might go ' you where told, it's "offensive language" ', being warned for offensive language is like being warned for 'saying something at some time that may have upset someone without knowing what it was, who it was, or what was so upsetting about what was said'.

In a bottom line, all this approach will do is foster less communication, paranoia in players about what they can say in general, and like me now, ensure that people communicate less ingame overall, because I will certainly refuse to use any chat with people now that I do not know personally. It's simply too much of a risk and I'm not jeapordizing my year-long account for the subjective opinions and whims of other people.

As a last 'note', for those of us who enjoy Roleplaying, this infact might become a huge problem down the line in the future, because roleplay, given it's a story-telling medium, can be offensive by it's own nature, depending on what themes you play (and no i'm not talking about ERP). So you can't even RP in public venues, on RP servers, without risking getting into a warning/suspension loop.

So yeah, curious to see what other peoples opinions on these are, and if we can get a more 'satisfying' approach in the future, because warning and suspending people without giving clear evidence or reason towards these motions is just wrong on multiple levels. I understand this is a game and not a public court, but some measure of 'due process' should be there if you want people to adjust their behavior accordingly, and not have to resort to drastic measures as I am now forced to.

PS: I'll be making an official copy of this post to reddit

This has been a issue for a long time my dude.

Best thing to do? Talk only to your trusted friends and fc mates, never talk in public, and just let it go.

You will be happy, and so will SE, cuz then they have less work to do. Infact dont even post on the boards, its significantly easier to get flagged on here unless you fall fall under a certain privileged player category.

Just let it go.

[DanteKardo]

I certainly wont let it go, given it extremely impacts the way I can now express myself in a game that i've invested in several years, and alot of money into. It also impacts Roleplaying, which I do enjoy quite alot, and it impacts my ability to respond to any parties in dungeons and what not, especially if there's some issues arising.

Not to mention the very basic fact that the whole process in which this is done equals a kangaroo court approach. You don't even have room or space to defend against allegations made, or argue your personal case in said situation. This equals "You've been accused of being offensive/inappropriate, we've confirmed your guilt, therefore, here's your warning".

The issue in that approach is glaring. Any one with a report happy finger can get people now banned within a short timeframe, all they need to do is to declare any controversial statement or thought others make as 'Offensive', and get the GM's to do their bidding.

[Misurugi]

reading up the from start to finish... offensive or foul language... umm... get thicker skin? wait.. i'm getting penalized for someone turning off their profanity filter??? HOW IS THAT MY FAULT THAT THE MORON TURNED IT OFF? I rarely talk to other people in game thanks to an incident that happened to me in wheeping city.. everyone was laughing.. someone got butt hurt and reported me and a friend... yeah.. i don't talk much anymore.. here's the thing in any online playing game the online interaction is not rated by the ESRB.. so why the bloody hell.. are we being forced to speak in G format? You find my language offensive... turn on the bloody profanity filter.. oh.. then why not block me? I'm sorry.. what? think of the children? I REPEAT ONLINE INTERACTION IS NOT RATED BY THE ESRB. ppl curse.. ppl trash talk.. that's just what they do... so if they can't take someone randomly cussing.. playing online is not for them... Now... if they were being harassed and trolled.. sure report them.. but seriously... sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you... SE really needs to reword that ToS agreement... It's vague as all hell, and it completely turns off the social aspect of this game.. Oh you can't use offensive or foul language.. I repeat.. DO YOU KNOW HOW VAGUE THAT SOUNDS? Offensive language.... is so broad spectrum, you cough and that can be constrewed as offensive to the right people... not even joking.. so i can completely understand where the OP is coming from on how confusing that warning is..

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

I certainly wont let it go, given it extremely impacts the way I can now express myself in a game that i've invested in several years, and alot of money into. It also impacts Roleplaying, which I do enjoy quite alot, and it impacts my ability to respond to any parties in dungeons and what not, especially if there's some issues arising.

Not to mention the very basic fact that the whole process in which this is done equals a kangaroo court approach. You don't even have room or space to defend against allegations made, or argue your personal case in said situation. This equals "You've been accused of being offensive/inappropriate, we've confirmed your guilt, therefore, here's your warning".

The issue in that approach is glaring. Any one with a report happy finger can get people now banned within a short timeframe, all they need to do is to declare any controversial statement or thought others make as 'Offensive', and get the GM's to do their bidding.

It has to be a reasonable offense. "You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive." There is no "room to defend" as they have the chat logs, especially with randoms or people in public areas.

What you can do, is get people to agree in chat that the profanity used in role play is agreed to by all sides before going into character. Gives you some room to say, hey, no we all agreed to this. And if you are going to do it in a public place, you are going to have to keep it in party chats.

[Vahlnir]

I certainly wont let it go, given it extremely impacts the way I can now express myself in a game that i've invested in several years, and alot of money into. It also impacts Roleplaying, which I do enjoy quite alot, and it impacts my ability to respond to any parties in dungeons and what not, especially if there's some issues arising.

Not to mention the very basic fact that the whole process in which this is done equals a kangaroo court approach. You don't even have room or space to defend against allegations made, or argue your personal case in said situation. This equals "You've been accused of being offensive/inappropriate, we've confirmed your guilt, therefore, here's your warning".

The issue in that approach is glaring. Any one with a report happy finger can get people now banned within a short timeframe, all they need to do is to declare any controversial statement or thought others make as 'Offensive', and get the GM's to do their bidding.

I mean, I get why you're upset, but this seems like a bit of an overreaction. Just watch what you say and how you say it! You don't need to become a hermit and shut the entire world out. SE's terms might be vague, perhaps too vague, but...it's not hard to keep oneself in check. Or at least it shouldn't be.

[SturmChurro]

reading up the from start to finish... offensive or foul language... umm... get thicker skin? wait.. i'm getting penalized for someone turning off their profanity filter??? HOW IS THAT MY FAULT THAT THE MORON TURNED IT OFF? I rarely talk to other people in game thanks to an incident that happened to me in wheeping city.. everyone was laughing.. someone got butt hurt and reported me and a friend... yeah.. i don't talk much anymore.. here's the thing in any online playing game the online interaction is not rated by the ESRB.. so why the bloody hell.. are we being forced to speak in G format? You find my language offensive... turn on the bloody profanity filter.. oh.. then why not block me? I'm sorry.. what? think of the children? I REPEAT ONLINE INTERACTION IS NOT RATED BY THE ESRB. ppl curse.. ppl trash talk.. that's just what they do... so if they can't take someone randomly cussing.. playing online is not for them... Now... if they were being harassed and trolled.. sure report them.. but seriously... sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt you... SE really needs to reword that ToS agreement... It's vague as all hell, and it completely turns off the social aspect of this game.. Oh you can't use offensive or foul language.. I repeat.. DO YOU KNOW HOW VAGUE THAT SOUNDS? Offensive language.... is so broad spectrum, you cough and that can be constrewed as offensive to the right people... not even joking.. so i can completely understand where the OP is coming from on how confusing that warning is..

Anything that isn't literally "PG" can be acted upon at a GM's discretion. Don't bother at all, you literally can be banned. I wish I was joking here. The profanity filter doesn't matter.

[DanteKardo]

I'm not denying it was not reasonable. I know myself and I know the things I say, I can be abrasive at times, and for all I know, I 'did' deserve the warning as such strictly from a 'It's against the ToS to swear/curse/upset people with weaker constitutions for abrasive language'

What I'm however vehemently against is not informing me of what it is I said explicitly that was in breach, and perhaps most importantly, in relation to that, not knowing if I'm the only one punished in that regard. I don't just go out blindly being rude to people, nobody does. Most times when strong language is used, it's in a form of discussion or even a 'jesting' type of scenario, and there's a back and forth of strong language coming, it's not an one sided street.

To add to this, I don't play daily. I have periods in which I don't play for as much as 5-6 days in a row due to work and other schedules. It's absolutely impossible for me to determine myself what it was that I said that was wrong, chances are I don't even remember the incident at all, since I probably didn't even view it as important or large.

If Warnings are meant to have a warning function, it needs to warn you about what you did exactly, not just go 'you said something wrong sometime, fix it'.

[Taramin]

reading up the from start to finish... offensive or foul language... umm... get thicker skin? wait.. i'm getting penalized for someone turning off their profanity filter??? HOW IS THAT MY FAULT THAT THE MORON TURNED IT OFF? -snip-

See, the problem with this mentality, is that profanity is against the rules period. The filter is there as an extra layer of protection, not an excuse.

[DanteKardo]

I mean, I get why you're upset, but this seems like a bit of an overreaction. Just watch what you say and how you say it! You don't need to become a hermit and shut the entire world out. SE's terms might be vague, perhaps too vague, but...it's not hard to keep oneself in check. Or at least it shouldn't be.

It's not an overreaction. I've actual experience in administrating and managing communities, I know where vague rules lead to. 'Just watch what you say and how you say it' is exactly what I will be doing. And the only way I 'can' do that is to refuse to communicate with anyone except my closest friends, because I cannot reasonably predict or expect to know what strangers may consider offensive or not, inappropriate or not.