Hairstyle Concerns for The New Races

[reivaxe]

I think in the viera's case it has much more to do with the ears than the head itself. SE did very little work on the au ra horns as far as hats are concerned. They just clip through everything. The position of the viera's ears makes doing this impossible because it frankly would look terrible with most head gear, and people would immediately draw the comparison between them and miqo ears, which work fine with hats due to ear holes.

The actual heads of the viera are not too different in shape to any of the existing races. The head is attached to the neck in more or less the same way as the current females and their posture is very upright. However this isn't the case for the hrothgar due to their hunched posture. Some of the longer hairstyles would clip like crazy into their backs. However their ears are small enough to fit into almost any hat.

So they both have problems the devs would need to overcome, but pretty different problems.

However, aside from time constraints, I don't see why the viera shouldn't have access to most of the current hairstyles. The ears are the only complication and it's basically a non issue for most of them. Making the hairstyles fit on their heads correctly wouldn't be much more work than it was to do so for au ra.



Hrothgar is a very different story to viera. Though it's obvious a great deal of the current hairstyles could work on them, the fact that their current hair is right now being presented as locked with faces is making me concerned that we will be forever stuck with what we see now. If the hair wasn't tied to faces, I would mostly assuming that the rest of the hairstyles are merely delayed.



While it would be nice to not have to fantasia to change hair, I don't think this would do much to ease the concerns of people who don't want to be stuck with such a tiny amount of choice and be forced to change their face just to change their hair. For years players have been asking for au ra horns to be separated from faces. Presenting hrothgar hair in that manner is a step backwards.

You're not really catching what I'm saying.

Its not a matter of how easy it would be or not, its the fact that through out all this they have treated the HROTHGAR and Viera as a packaged deal.

Like how they said the viera would not be able to wear head gear, not even glasses on the npcs. They didn't go "well, we can at least make glasses easily work on viera so lets let them have those in the mean time and not give HROTHGAR anything". Nope, they didn't seperate their options for that. .

For the hair I see no reason to not think its the same. As in, even if we think it's easy to just make the hair work for Viera I think its not gonna happen unless it happens for both. As it stands neither have the option for none racial hair and to give one all the shared hair styles the other would have to be given the same or something as well.

[Seraphor]

You're not really catching what I'm saying.

Its not a matter of how easy it would be or not, its the fact that through out all this they have treated the HROTHGAR and Viera as a packaged deal.

Like how they said the viera would not be able to wear head gear, not even glasses on the npcs. They didn't go "well, we can at least make glasses easily work on viera so lets let them have those in the mean time and not give HROTHGAR anything". Nope, they didn't seperate their options for that. .

For the hair I see no reason to not think its the same. As in, even if we think it's easy to just make the hair work for Viera I think its not gonna happen unless it happens for both. As it stands neither have the option for none racial hair and to give one all the shared hair styles the other would have to be given the same or something as well.

That's blatantly false as the Viera have more hairstyle options.

The 'no headgear' thing is a time constraint.

[Tharne]

That's blatantly false as the Viera have more hairstyle options.

The 'no headgear' thing is a time constraint.

A single Viera face may have more hairstyle options because of how the Hrothgar have them tied to Faces but they have overall the same number of hairstyle (minus 1 but it's "The Fran" one) across the Race.

Viera have 8 hairstyles with each of them having a bang version and a bangless version (except the first one which has one more with "The Fran") for a total of 16(+1) = 17 hairstyles.
Hrotghar have 4 Faces with 2 hairstyles each = 8 BUT you can had bits to them with Facial Features making it 16 hairstyles.

[Reinha]

The hair limitation is surprising and a bit disappointing, because hairstyles are a collectible people pay money for and grind content for. It probably comes down to memory limitations. If that's the case then they could have tied fur patterns to faces (like Au Ra horns are tied to faces) but let the hairstyles vary independently. Maybe we could have also changed the color of hair highlights instead of pattern color and just have all patterns in black.

[Alleo]

You're not really catching what I'm saying.

Its not a matter of how easy it would be or not, its the fact that through out all this they have treated the HROTHGAR and Viera as a packaged deal.

Well I think the part with the headgear was because they still had to be changed for both races and since there is a huge amount of headgear they decided to do it later and do it together. The hair situation is imo different because unlike Hrothgar the Vieras still have their normal hair customization just less while the Hrothgar have none at all. So I dont see how they could not just say that thanks to their heads they wont get them but at least they got the fur. While Vieras got nothing else instead of more hair and at the same time have no visible reason to not have the other hair since their head is not different than other races.

If they really use the argument of a package deal for this then I will just shake my head and even as a fan of beastily races wonder if it wouldnt have been better to just get both Vieras..

In the end if we dont even get the other hairstyles for Viera than we have two big limited new races...which they then did not tell us beforehand..

[reivaxe]

Well I think the part with the headgear was because they still had to be changed for both races and since there is a huge amount of headgear they decided to do it later and do it together. The hair situation is imo different because unlike Hrothgar the Vieras still have their normal hair customization just less while the Hrothgar have none at all. So I dont see how they could not just say that thanks to their heads they wont get them but at least they got the fur. While Vieras got nothing else instead of more hair and at the same time have no visible reason to not have the other hair since their head is not different than other races.

As been stated they have the same number of hair styles. The Viera can highlight their hair (AND their bang/ non-bangs versions have different highlights, this is not something I see used in any other instance of a hair style going from bangs to no bangs) but the Hrothgar get fur patterns that they can pick and color.

Looking at the fact that the last time they added a new race we could Bench Mark all the shared non-mogstation hair on them AND the fact that Viera were given glasses along with Hrothgar and the fact that they share the same number of hair styles with features unseen in other races it seems clear that they are walking this "unique head" road together.
I mean, your logic seems to be that "Viera have a hair tab" but that's the thing ... they have that NOW yet still don't have the other hairs outside their race styles. And for some reason their 8 race hairs have bangs/ no bangs versions AND different highlights for each version which no other race has and has been pointed to as a unique thing for them.

It's really only wishful assumption to think that things will change at this point and suddenly Viera will get all these things without the Hrothgar getting anything.
I've personally accepted that this is it and either both get the Mog-Station hairs (Cause Money. SE should know many people buy Mogstation glam purely for the hair when that's included) and contest hairs or they get what they got now.

(What the Hrothgar currently have doesn't make up for the Viera getting all the hair in this game and them being left out. Even if they don't add hair styles they need to add more of something lol)

If they really use the argument of a package deal for this then I will just shake my head and even as a fan of beastily races wonder if it wouldnt have been better to just get both Vieras..

Oh, no ... the Hrothgar are clearly the stars of this show. Like Yoshi said, it was Female Hrothgar or Viera. So yeah, maybe they shoulda just added Female Hrothgar instead.
I LOVE that Viera are basically made for making pretty black and brown girl toons in this game but I'd love to see what they think Female Hrothgar would look like given the amazing work on the men.

[Penthea]

You're not really catching what I'm saying.

Its not a matter of how easy it would be or not, its the fact that through out all this they have treated the HROTHGAR and Viera as a packaged deal.

Like how they said the viera would not be able to wear head gear, not even glasses on the npcs. They didn't go "well, we can at least make glasses easily work on viera so lets let them have those in the mean time and not give HROTHGAR anything". Nope, they didn't seperate their options for that. .

For the hair I see no reason to not think its the same. As in, even if we think it's easy to just make the hair work for Viera I think its not gonna happen unless it happens for both. As it stands neither have the option for none racial hair and to give one all the shared hair styles the other would have to be given the same or something as well.

This doesn't really explain why hrothgar have hairstyles tied to faces while viera do not. In this aspect they are not treated as a package deal. At least for the benchmark they have deliberately given hrothgar more restrictive hair options, while viera have been given the standard (which is more flexible) method of choosing hair.

Viera have 8 hairstyles with each of them having a bang version and a bangless version (except the first one which has one more with "The Fran") for a total of 16(+1) = 17 hairstyles.
Hrotghar have 4 Faces with 2 hairstyles each = 8 BUT you can had bits to them with Facial Features making it 16 hairstyles.

But it doesn't feel like sixteen hairstyles because you can't have each of them for every face. You can say au ra have a choice of four horn styles, but if a player only likes one face then that's going to feel like they have a choice of one horn style. Separating horns from faces is frequently requested. Players don't like it. Tying hairstyles to faces is even worse than this.

[SturmChurro]

This doesn't really explain why hrothgar have hairstyles tied to faces while viera do not. In this aspect they are not treated as a package deal. At least for the benchmark they have deliberately given hrothgar more restrictive hair options, while viera have been given the standard (which is more flexible) method of choosing hair.

Agreed. They don't have to fall on this "packaged deal" thing the other poster is claiming. They could easily come up with any excuse in the book for why Hrothgar faces/hairs are restrictive, while still allowing for further hairstyles with Viera.

The real problem with headgear for Viera would be the gigantic ears, that Miqo'te/Elezen, for example, receive custom helmets for. If they wanted to do it properly they would have to modify tons of headgear to fit the Viera head - specifically because of the ears, they could clip the ears through the top, OR they could do what they did and only have specific headgears available.

[reivaxe]

This doesn't really explain why hrothgar have hairstyles tied to faces while viera do not. In this aspect they are not treated as a package deal. At least for the benchmark they have deliberately given hrothgar more restrictive hair options, while viera have been given the standard (which is more flexible) method of choosing hair.

I don't have to explain any of that, I don't make the game and we don't know what shd will give them on release.

I'm just pointing out the math. 8 HROTHGAR hair styles that can have things added to them for a total of 16 hair appearnaces, just like Viera. Neither has shown a single member to have a shared hair style yet and both were held from glasses at the same time. They have both always been said to have "unique heads".

Maybe when the expansion comes out we will find that HROTHGAR can change faces. Maybe both get all the hairs but they divide their version of the hairs amoung the different faces or mimic them with the features tab? Maybe this is it for both, Who knows.

What you need to ask is why does Viera only have this many options and a unique hair feature if they're gonna have more than HROTHGAR in the future. If you think there's more to that then assume there's more to HROTHGAR to is what I'm saying.

But it doesn't feel like sixteen hairstyles because you can't have each of them for every face. .

Doesn't really matter what it feels like to you, the math doesn't lie. 16 for the men race and 16 for the women. Men are given unique fur pattern options but no highlights, women are given highlight changing versions of their hair, both things no other race has. If there's more to come we'll see but yeah, they're very much even Stevens right now

[Alleo]

This doesn't really explain why hrothgar have hairstyles tied to faces while viera do not. In this aspect they are not treated as a package deal. At least for the benchmark they have deliberately given hrothgar more restrictive hair options, while viera have been given the standard (which is more flexible) method of choosing hair.

Thats my view on this too. If they are a package deal then truly make them one by only allowing both to choose the hair only through the faces. By making Viera different from that you not only already changed the package deal but also opened them up to questions on why they cant get more hairstyles.

And for me they dont even need to be the same. Just go and tell us these things beforehand and explain why it was not possible with Hrothgar.