Why are people calling it “casualbringers” now?

[NessaWyvern]

They're not. Good players will always outperform mediocre/bad players. However, being a multiplayer game, making it easier to perform well means less punishing for other players, so it's a win-win for the whole community.

It also makes it a lot less fun for the good players. Case in point, HW PvP vs SB PvP. Less is not always more, you need enough abilities that the class feels different, and make it feel rewarding when you master them all.

[SerLuke]

I’m still of the mind that these “bad players” should actually put forth the effort. I disagree with bringing down the ceiling to meet them because they simply don’t want to try and get better. It’s catering to laziness and positive reinforcement of poor play.

I get that, but the problem is that's not happening and the same complaints about bad players are still happening over and over again, devs read this on the forums thus try to make it so there are less bad players, so from a development standpoint what needs to be done?

[linay]

What exactly is different? Absolutely nothing..

Then why do people play different jobs in the same role? Because they're different enough. Otherwise, no reason to level multiple jobs in the same role.

[ForteNightshade]

So I'm a bit curious here, a lot of people on the forums/reddit/etc say the majority of the player base is bad and they don't want to play with them so SE takes steps so bad players are well... less bad, this makes people unhappy, so whats the resolution here? Making bad players frustrated and just quitting the game? Booting bad players everywhere they are? It seems lowering the skill gap is the best possible solution here.

Maybe the bad players can put in a little effort and you know, press their buttons? Good players didn't wake up one morning and suddenly decide "I'm clearing Ultimate tonight." They put in work to become capable of such an achievement—an accomplishment anyone can do if they work at it. Making everything easy only rewards people who were too lazy to begin with. Now that doesn't mean you cannot simplify some aspects but you shouldn't bring the game down to the point where it's brain dead easy.

[Hash_Browns]

So I'm a bit curious here, a lot of people on the forums/reddit/etc say the majority of the player base is bad and they don't want to play with them so SE takes steps so bad players are well... less bad, this makes people unhappy, so whats the resolution here? Making bad players frustrated and just quitting the game? Booting bad players everywhere they are? It seems lowering the skill gap is the best possible solution here.

The solution is to make content REQUIRE learning before you can move on.
Don't lower the quality of players by making it easier, weed out the bad players by expecting them to do more.

Putting up a gate that says "learn your class, or you're stuck" is a good way to make people learn.

[ScarboroughFairy]

Not really. they all play much the same. thats the problem for a lot of people.

-snip-

What exactly is different? Absolutely nothing.. They all play the exact same way... it's not like each tank has a totally unique way of dealing with boss damage it's all exactly the same..

So, your contention is that tanks are functioning as tanks and healers are functioning as...healers?

same for dps they all function in exactly the same way. if you dropped that dragoon in your party and got a monk instead. the fight would still be exactly the same.
ok sure the bard might lose a peircing debuff but it wouldn't change how they played in any way. it's not like they'd have to adapt a totally different strategy just because the dragoon left.....

This is probably the most reductionist argument I've seen for any MMO. Hell, any game.

>"All these Jobs do damage so there's nothing different about them".

I don't think this argument has a valid application when you're insisting that there's nothing about any of the classes that make them stand out in any way. Every job has something different to bring to the table, if I'm not mistaken. Not, you, Black Mage. You just bring the heat. Same with you, Samurai.
Hell, if I were to apply this logic to a hack 'n slash or even a fighter, it would have virtually the same effect, rendering the argument completely useless as it is dumb.

>"Pick any character, they all do damage! Nevermind the playstyle."

Everyone is the same.... literally the only difference between one job and another is how big the numbers are. and that is why the devs struggle so much....

I think I've explained why this idea doesn't hold any weight. You're saying that the classes are just reskins of each other and, well...that's not even remotely true.

[linay]

It also makes it a lot less fun for the good players. Case in point, HW PvP vs SB PvP. Less is not always more, you need enough abilities that the class feels different, and make it feel rewarding when you master them all.

They look different enough in the job actions video.

[ForteNightshade]

I get that, but the problem is that's not happening and the same complaints about bad players are still happening over and over again, devs read this on the forums thus try to make it so there are less bad players, so from a development standpoint what needs to be done?

Nothing.

Leave the bad stuck behind a gate until they learn how to improve. You shouldn't reward bad players too lazy to improve by gifting them an easy clear. The longer they continue to do this, the more people will whine because it works. What incentive do they have to learn when they can keep complaining and get their way?

[griffinborn]

It's the new cool thing to say to separate yourself from the filthy casuals playing the same game.

[SerLuke]

Nothing.

Leave the bad stuck behind a gate until they learn how to improve. You shouldn't reward bad players too lazy to improve by gifting them an easy clear. The longer they continue to do this, the more people will whine because it works. What incentive do they have to learn when they can keep complaining and get their way?

How do you propose they gate them then? Cause by doing nothing the same thing is just going to keep happening as people have complained about since the launch of ARR with bad players, I see complaints but very few solutions being put forth.