5.0 leaks (that I don't believe)

[deadman1204]

Three things screamed to me that this is fake:
1. Separating arcanist's jobs into 2 separate classes.
- This is a ton of work for ZERO pay off. ARR is done. It was hard to get 2 jobs to mesh with a single class but that is in the past.
- This would be creating a world of problems (making a new 1-30 class, major changes to 2 jobs) for no good reason
2. removing drg piercing debuff
- This is a wish list of bards only (technically mch? but no where near the top of their list lol). Its basically nerfing drg and buffing bards for no reason.
- DRG gain a little bit of damage to compensate, but a tiny gain would still make them the lowest damage dps. Plus they lose some group desirability. They lose a serious debuff that bards/mechs need
- This is the ONLY change that takes apart some of the class meta - specifically helping a single very popular class which needs no help in the meta.
3. The rez limit. This screamed elitism. No game would do this - it simply punishes players new to the content. We've all seen alliance/24man raids where more than 10 people die, yet victory is still achieved.
- creates problems and solves nothing

[Hexi]

I think the reason for the sch / sum split is because SE wanted to rework the healers and they probably couldn't do that effectively without the changes to sch effecting sum as well.

Removing the piercing debuf from dragoons it probably not the first debuf that is going away, I have a feeling that the slashing and blunt ones will go too. I wonder if bard / mch will get buffs as well as the dragoon?

The rez limit and no rez sickness sound like a good idea, it makes things more punishing for continuing to make mistakes.

Yay tank stance is going away too, it was a useless ability that only punishes tanks for using it, but the loss of strength on tank gear I'm not sure about

[Irenia]

I think the reason for the sch / sum split is because SE wanted to rework the healers and they probably couldn't do that effectively without the changes to sch effecting sum as well.

Nowadays, they can trait things away if there is an issue; so I doubt this is an issue anymore.

[Zeromon]

Honestly these leaks tells us nothing and can't be verified because there is such little context. Stuff like removing tank stance seems possible but there will need to be a whole host of changes surrounding that which are not listed here. There is a legitimate way to remove tank stance but none of that is leaked so who the hell knows? Same with the healer dps thing. If everything else about healing stayed the same except all dps are ogcds then these leaks are fake, but we have no idea how the healing kits will change with the dps change so who's to know? Ultimately all of these supposed changes seem possible under certain circumstances. We'll know soon, but personally I doubt they will change stuff up this much. Such changes will require major reworks of jobs, and SE hasn't indicated that jobs will see such revolutionary changes.

[whiskeybravo]

By this logic neither is Conjuror.

It has two heals and a raise. That's it.

It gets a DoT, a strike spammer that evolves more often than an Arcanists, and prior to the potency being removed, Fluid Aura was an OGCD attack.

Oh, and as a bonus, any sort of retooling to Arcanist to make it a healer would see Carbuncle likely getting the aoe heal, so lookie there, Arcanist would have two heals too.

Sorry, I had to wait a couple days to regain forums access since I don't log in much now >.<

"By this logic neither is conjurer" might be a reasonable line of argument if Conjurer had a red DPS icon... But they don't. ACN is a DPS base class. They've hinted at wanting to re-work the job/class system anyways, and we know that SCH was pretty much tacked on towards the end of ARR development.. Everything seems to point to ACN>SMN.

Furthermore, it's been discussed in some depth that SMN utility encroaches on RDM utility. SMN deals more damage and is virtually equal in party support. If they take away the raise from SMN (in order to further compartmentalize SMN/SCH split) it would cement RDM as the support magic DPS and allow SMN/BLM to compete on a more level playing field for that heavy damage caster spot. It's an abstract and speculative thought but seems plausible enough IMO.

It makes very little sense to rework ACN into a base healer class, especially when they have moved away from using base classes at all. It's double the work considering they'd then have to re-work SMN to fit as well. In fact, it makes way more sense to just get rid of ACN class altogether and have SMN/SCH as independent jobs, since that would be the option that best aligns with their current design philosophy of jobs > classes.

And just to be clear, I'm not suggesting SMN/SCH wasn't a neat concept (DPS and Healer branching off same class, semi-freedom to switch to either depending on mood/needs, etc). But if they want to move away from that I don't think it really hurts anything (outside of people's muscle memory), and it probably will make balancing easier for them in the long run.

[Kabooa]

It makes very little sense to rework ACN into a base healer class, especially when they have moved away from using base classes at all. It's double the work considering they'd then have to re-work SMN to fit as well. In fact, it makes way more sense to just get rid of ACN class altogether and have SMN/SCH as independent jobs, since that would be the option that best aligns with their current design philosophy of jobs > classes.

ACN -> Scholar is the more natural progression based on Arcanist and Scholar's stories.

Summoner separating from Scholar properly already implies one of the two is going to have to be reworked, and of the two, Summoner is the more contentious for its representation in game.

Further, Arcanist already gets rebranded as a base healing class anytime a Scholar goes into under-30 level synced content, and yet it functions just fine. The only addition Arcanist would need is for Carbuncle to have a healing spell on it. Not really a whole lot of reworking necessary.

[deadman1204]

Ya, its a logical fallacy to say "leaks in the past have been correct, so we should consider these". Like 1 or 2 "leaks" EVERY have been genuine. Its ignoring the thousands of BS ones people make up.

[whiskeybravo]

Summoner separating from Scholar properly already implies one of the two is going to have to be reworked, and of the two, Summoner is the more contentious for its representation in game..

If they separate SCH from ACN the only thing that really needs a re-work are their base DPS abilities inherited from ACN, and the 3 ACN abilities they share with SMN between 30-50 (ruin 2, rouse, shadow flare). This is a stated concentration of design change (streamlining healer DPS). The bulk of SCH's actual healing kit (and higher level DPS kit) comes from SCH job abilities, not ACN, so it's mostly unaffected. Same could be said for SMN, except the base DPS kit it inherits from ACN evolves to become a more specialized SMN kit. How are you going to take away all the dots from SMN and say it's even still a SMN (at least, FFXIV's "contentious" version of SMN)? That's why I said it's double the work, instead of just streamlining SCH as an independent job, now they still have to streamline SCH and entirely rework SMN because it no longer has it's base dot-damage kit.

If someone wants them to re-work SMN then just say so. You don't have to come up with some abstraction about how SCH fits better with ACN and therefore SMN needs to be rebuilt.

Further, Arcanist already gets rebranded as a base healing class anytime a Scholar goes into under-30 level synced content, and yet it functions just fine. The only addition Arcanist would need is for Carbuncle to have a healing spell on it. Not really a whole lot of reworking necessary.

Uhmm.. A level 18 SCH in Sastasha remains a level 18 SCH, it doesn't change to a green ACN icon. A WHM doesn't revert back to CNJ just because it's under lv30, it retains it's WHM "brand".

It's clear that you're not convinced by my reasoning, nor am I convinced by yours. So we may just have to agree to disagree for now, and see what they end up announcing next week :P

[tinythinker]

Saw a different set of "leaks" yesterday. Holy crap. Some people are really good at making them sound real (most don't). I would NOT be disappointed if this last round of leaks was real other than the fact that someone violated the NDA

So finally today we will get an idea of the real changes

[ADVSS]

Saw a different set of "leaks" yesterday. Holy crap. Some people are really good at making them sound real (most don't). I would NOT be disappointed if this last round of leaks was real other than the fact that someone violated the NDA

So finally today we will get an idea of the real changes

For real some seem really consistent with a couple others that id seen recently. Still too early, but I think some of the believable overlaps may actually be true