Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[KaleShibata]

This one isn't even a complaint this is an appreciation:

Just ran a roulette. got Gubal Library normal. I'm running black mage, we get a scholar healer and a dragoon. almost off the bat I notice that my aggro gauge is going up far too quickly. I also notice the tank is taking more damage than normal and it clicks that our Paladin tank has forgotten sheild oath. he's not mass pulling so i figure "eh I'll let it go I've been there ya know? I'm just gonna see how this goes."

He only lost aggro in instances I figured he might in the handful of normal 4 and 5 mob groups the dungeon has and thats exactly...4 of them total? so no big. first boss was fine I just had to pop lucid to avoid taking boss aggro. no big. had a couple cases our healer was targeted for a moment, me twice as well but only for a couple seconds maybe. second boss was not note worthy...when we get down to the final mobs I figure I'll let him in on it since he hadn't figured it out himself yet. no wipes, before i head to the final boss room I congratulate him on running outside shield oath and he was absolutely floored he hadn't had it on. I laughed, the dragoon laughed, he switched on shield oath and the boss fight went perfectly. gave him a comm for actually being able to run outside oath an entire dungeon with 2 burst dps.

Good times. GG would totally comm a tank for successfully running oathless again.

[Sanctify]

If I'm tanking, I'm pulling. If you pull it, I won't notice... intentionally.

Literally the worst lol. You completely disregard your role when something doesnt go your way? There is no dedicated "puller" role. If you want that go play on ffxi and relive that feeling as a pre-abyssea thf/brd/rng.

That would be like me refusing to heal someone because they keep eating a mechanic. Is it frustrating? Sure, at times. Am I gonna jeopardize and hinder the entire party for it? No, that's insane. Your line of thinking is insane lol.

[SenorPatty]

This one isn't even a complaint this is an appreciation:

Just ran a roulette. got Gubal Library normal. I'm running black mage, we get a scholar healer and a dragoon. almost off the bat I notice that my aggro gauge is going up far too quickly. I also notice the tank is taking more damage than normal and it clicks that our Paladin tank has forgotten sheild oath. he's not mass pulling so i figure "eh I'll let it go I've been there ya know? I'm just gonna see how this goes."

He only lost aggro in instances I figured he might in the handful of normal 4 and 5 mob groups the dungeon has and thats exactly...4 of them total? so no big. first boss was fine I just had to pop lucid to avoid taking boss aggro. no big. had a couple cases our healer was targeted for a moment, me twice as well but only for a couple seconds maybe. second boss was not note worthy...when we get down to the final mobs I figure I'll let him in on it since he hadn't figured it out himself yet. no wipes, before i head to the final boss room I congratulate him on running outside shield oath and he was absolutely floored he hadn't had it on. I laughed, the dragoon laughed, he switched on shield oath and the boss fight went perfectly. gave him a comm for actually being able to run outside oath an entire dungeon with 2 burst dps.

Good times. GG would totally comm a tank for successfully running oathless again.

This happens to me usually after I tank ex/70 roulette and queue for anything else below because I forget lvl sync shenanigans. It's kinda funny.

Literally the worst lol. You completely disregard your role when something doesnt go your way? There is no dedicated "puller" role. If you want that go play on ffxi and relive that feeling as a pre-abyssea thf/brd/rng.

That would be like me refusing to heal someone because they keep eating a mechanic. Is it frustrating? Sure, at times. Am I gonna jeopardize and hinder the entire party for it? No, that's insane. Your line of thinking is insane lol.

He does mention he does this AFTER a warning has been issued. Quite frankly, I just about do the same, with a slight variation being that it better not be an intentional pull. You can't have it both ways: you want your tank to tank but who pulls is anyone's game. Nuh huh.

[Krotoan]

But the healer wasn't forcing the tank to do anything. There was no talk of "hey tank! Get these enemies off me that I pulled!" and (judging by the apparent competence of the healer in question) there wouldn't have been because that healer would know that even if they were holding threat on an entire trash pack they were still fine.

The tank doesn't have any right to be the first one to hit something as long as the person going before the tank understands that they're going to take a few smacks to the face in the process. In a lot of content this isn't viable because the healer may not be good enough to keep multiple people alive or the enemies may hit for too much damage; since nether was the case here the tank's complaint boils down to "I'm the tank let me go first" which is just throwing a temper tantrum for no reason.

Do you play tank? Because your job as tank is to take the damage. The healer heals that damage and the DPS does Damage to the enemies until they die. These are the barest minimum requirements for you as each role. Tank gets hit. Healer makes sure people don't die from unavoidable damage. DPS does as much damage as they can to the enemy that the tank is tanking. We could get into the smaller nuances available for each class such as healer and tank doing some damage or DPS prioritizing the enemy that the tank has the MOST aggro on so that it doesn't turn or managing their aggro as much as they can with mitigating skills. But lets concentrate on what the holy trinity of RPG's has always been.

Tank = HIT ME. Healer = undo damage. DPS= Kill the badguy

If your healer grabs aggro, it is now on your tank to make sure those are doing the damage to the tank. If the tank FAILS to grab those enemies and turn their attention on them, they are not doing their base job. The fact that the healer here could handle the damage is irrelevant.

What you are proposing is that the tank ignores his only real responsibility because the healer didn't say anything. If I waited for people to ask me to perform my basic responsibility in any duty finder I would expect to be kicked very quickly.

As anything other than tank, if you are grabbing aggro on an unengaged mob, you are not only making a mistake, but causing the tank to choose between either ignoring you and their one and only responsibility or doing their job.

The tank doesn't have a "Right" to do anything. It's what he's supposed to be doing and if everyone does these basic things, the dungeon gets done.

In the case we're discussing everyone made bad choices, but I still think it should have dropped with "I don't want to pull bigger" and been left alone.

[Callinon]

Literally the worst lol. You completely disregard your role when something doesnt go your way? There is no dedicated "puller" role. If you want that go play on ffxi and relive that feeling as a pre-abyssea thf/brd/rng.

That would be like me refusing to heal someone because they keep eating a mechanic. Is it frustrating? Sure, at times. Am I gonna jeopardize and hinder the entire party for it? No, that's insane. Your line of thinking is insane lol.

Well if we're being accurate here, in pre-Abyssea FFXI the tank wasn't the puller.

But specifically here, I don't tank at a snail's pace unless I have to. Either the mobs are too much for me to multi-pull or the healing is too much for the healer to keep up with. Either way, I set the pace of the dungeon if I'm tanking. If I specifically do not pull a pack of mobs, then I did that on purpose and the party needs to finish its peas before it gets dessert.

[van_arn]

In most normal mode content, there's a good chance you don't need a tank at all.

If the tank won't cooperate with the party, go with my blessing and show them the respect the content demands they be shown.

None.

[linay]

Literally the worst lol. You completely disregard your role when something doesnt go your way? There is no dedicated "puller" role. If you want that go play on ffxi and relive that feeling as a pre-abyssea thf/brd/rng.

That would be like me refusing to heal someone because they keep eating a mechanic. Is it frustrating? Sure, at times. Am I gonna jeopardize and hinder the entire party for it? No, that's insane. Your line of thinking is insane lol.

Exactly! Which is why the argument that someone pulling for the tank doesn't mean they're asking the tank to take care of what they're puling is pure nonsense.

[Khorchi]

Literally the worst lol. You completely disregard your role when something doesnt go your way?

Like not getting a mass pull? So you disregard your role and pull anyway?
________

Look I don't want to throw my two cents in here but I feel like I have to as I main'd both tank and healer on separate occasions.

In my opinion, both sides are right AND both sides are wrong.

Either you don't like what the (insert role of other player) is doing so you decide to take matters into your own hands by (insert doing something that is not your role) and you expect (insert role of other player) to adhere to your play style and co-operate with you.
OR...
You are playing a particular way because of (insert valid reason) but others in your party think you are playing slowly/not performing your class to the best of your ability and will help you out along the way. You may disagree with what they do but they are only playing to their play style/their level and are trying to teach you in the age old teachings of "learn by doing".

If words are exchanged and a kick happens, both sides have a valid argument. In a subjective sense, the storyteller will always be right and not see the side of the other player. And on the other side of the coin, vice versa will occur.
With that in mind, this does not mean that your way of playing is right. It also doesn't mean that their way of handling the situation was right.

Regardless of what each individual player would do... the ToS is there for a reason. You can report an unfair dismissal or you can report harassment. It's simple nowadays.

But I also feel like I need to point out, and this is for both sides of the argument here, the duty finder is there to comprise a random set of players that have to work as a team. Communication, respect for your fellow player and teamwork will make every dungeon experience more enjoyable for everyone involved.

Edit: If you disagree with that last sentence, I'll just say that this is one of the best MMOs I've played. Have I encountered terrible people on here? Yes. Are they now on my blacklist and had report filed against them? Yes. Will they tarnish my overall experience of this game? No.

This argument has been going on for so many pages, can we please just get back to venting about our Duty Finder troubles?

[Sanctify]

Well if we're being accurate here, in pre-Abyssea FFXI the tank wasn't the puller.

I know.... that's literally what I said

[Aosha]

It's potency is only 50 though when the single target is 180. And while carrying Umbral Ice your damage is already pretty reduced. But I see what you're saying. In the low level stuff, efficiency is not even close to a big deal.

50 potency, yes, but if that hits 4 enemies it's (50*4=200) so more than 180. That said, you're probably going to be doing Fire II's first, and chances are good there won't even be 4 enemies left going into Umbral Ice so yeah it mostly goes unused. Plus once you get Freeze it's just a better Blizzard II if macroed to <t>. Higher damage even with slower casting, and you don't need to move to the enemies. ...Not that you use that much either, it's usually just "BURN, Bliz3, Thun2/4, (Bliz4), back to BURN".

Yeah, that's what I was getting at - if it's low potency, okay, and I know CC is non-existent for most content, but. Why spam it away from mobs? Why not just use Bliz 1? And even if it's low potency, I still figure doing teensy damage is better than doing... none? But I'm really bad at DPS, haven't really tried BLM much, so forgive my stupidity.

People be bad, not understand the difference between range and radius on tooltip, not notice their Umbral Ice not being refreshed, not notice the lack of damage indicators.

Just ran a dusk vigil party to level up an alt dps, had a tank in near full noct on the left side, a few pieces of augmented ironworks on the right (why is it all the bad tanks I've had so far have come from Exodus? Or is it just my luck?)

Decides to mass pull without telling the rest of us, and goes splat, followed by me. Pld tank blames healer's weapon being too low ilvl (the healer had a gardua weapon) when everything else was perfectly fine, even though the healer and I pointed out the pld tank (who was not only stance-dancing during the first hallway) that they were undergeared as an important role as politely as we could, he still decides to be a bit of a jerk throughout the dungeon.

'Damn, Lamia must be something else.' says the returnee tank.

Well, I think the problem wasn't with us when everyone else was at level or better gear. Kinda your fault for not communicating things with the rest of us so we could get ready for the completely avoidable mess that was made.

Errr... Noct gear is only 10 ilevels below the stuff the dungeon drops, which is actually decent enough. A Garuda weapon (weapon, the most important piece of gear, that affects healing output more than anything else) on the other hand is 50 ilevels below Dusk Vigil drops. And 20 even below the requirements of Keeper, the previous MSQ dungeon. I don't know the exact math, but just from weapon damage and mind, they were missing (I'm guessing) 15% of healing output, depending on other gear.
Yeah, the tank surprise stancedance masspulling in sorta-on-level gear was definitely making a bad call (especially as they clearly didn't check the healer's gear first), and probably trying to just shift blame for their mishap, but they had a point (I think there's a trope for this? "jerkass has a point" or something?), the healer's weapon choice wasn't exactly up to par either. I definitely wouldn't queue for literally anything with that kind of a gear discrepancy on weapon.