"Tanks and Healers do too much Damage..."

[Hadley]

This is ironic to me considering most random DPS I run into don't know how to deal anything even close to respectable numbers.

[Brill_]

As far as I'm aware, Yoshida has made note that he feels Tanks and to a lesser extent Healers are doing "Too much damage"

This happened because they made every fight a DPS race. So naturally groups figured out how to squeeze out more dps.

[Paladinleeds]

Any solo instance with a DPS check would need a few tries I'd guess to get enough echo going.

I covered that already. There's a buff you get called "Breaking boundaries" or something, with description text "Breaking limits in a way only a warrior of light can." Dependent on the role you play, the buff changes (DPS/tanks I believe provides a passive regen, with healers I believe it increases damage done). Just tweak the numbers with that (and possibly add the damage up buff to tanks as well), and problem solved.

[SargentToughie]

I covered that already. There's a buff you get called "Breaking boundaries" or something, with description text "Breaking limits in a way only a warrior of light can." Dependent on the role you play, the buff changes (DPS/tanks I believe provides a passive regen, with healers I believe it increases damage done). Just tweak the numbers with that (and possibly add the damage up buff to tanks as well), and problem solved.

Yeah, problem with the solo instances solved.

Still doesn't fix the issues inherent in the system. You wanna place a bet on how many tanks will stick to the role if you smack them down to hitting like wet noodles? If you think there's a dearth of tanks now, hoo boy.

[Paladinleeds]

Yeah, problem with the solo instances solved.

Still doesn't fix the issues inherent in the system. You wanna place a bet on how many tanks will stick to the role if you smack them down to hitting like wet noodles? If you think there's a dearth of tanks now, hoo boy.

There's Gunbreaker that's drawing a lot of attention. But this is just the nature of the trinity. Tanks and healers will never be as popular unless they do more damage than DPS, at which point why bring a DPS? People want to see big numbers, and not have the responsibilities associated with tanking and healing. I don't think the loss would be as bad as you'd make it out to be. Plus, I believe I've seen players that are like "Well, I want to be a tank or healer, but they're just blue/green DPS so may as well just be a DPS". Those players would be more likely to go to tank/healer as well, so I think the end result would be a small net negative in terms of players, but nothing end of the world like.

[SargentToughie]

There's Gunbreaker that's drawing a lot of attention. But this is just the nature of the trinity. Tanks and healers will never be as popular unless they do more damage than DPS, at which point why bring a DPS? People want to see big numbers, and not have the responsibilities associated with tanking and healing. I don't think the loss would be as bad as you'd make it out to be. Plus, I believe I've seen players that are like "Well, I want to be a tank or healer, but they're just blue/green DPS so may as well just be a DPS". Those players would be more likely to go to tank/healer as well, so I think the end result would be a small net negative in terms of players, but nothing end of the world like.

I disagree entirely. Having tanked off and on since 2.0, just about the only thing that actually keeps me coming back to the role is the fact that I'm able to alleviate a lot of the excess burden off an underperforming DPS. You remove that, and keep the gameplay as it is, and I will never touch it again. And if you need any further proof that I'm not the only one, look no further than the tank forums/reddit. Sure, there are people like those that you describe, but people more like me are far and away more the majority, at least among the more passionate/invested players.

[Paladinleeds]

I disagree entirely. Having tanked off and on since 2.0, just about the only thing that actually keeps me coming back to the role is the fact that I'm able to alleviate a lot of the excess burden off an underperforming DPS. You remove that, and keep the gameplay as it is, and I will never touch it again. And if you need any further proof that I'm not the only one, look no further than the tank forums/reddit. Sure, there are people like those that you describe, but people more like me are far and away more the majority, at least among the more passionate/invested players.

Given that the forums and reddit are only a very small subset of people, I would say we can't say for certain either way. I've tanked on and off since 2.1 myself (was slightly later starting the game). While I do tank dungeons (I feel most comfortable tanking them, and this wouldn't change even if they were to gut the damage by even 90%), I would say I am a main healer (this seems to be a holdover from when I was pushed into a healing position raiding in WoW, for my guild group). But I have tried doing raiding as tank before. I would however also advocate changing the gameplay to go WITH the reduction of damage being dealt. I agree, keeping it as is and only reducing damage dealt would do no good. After all, tanks and healers DPS mostly because there is so little for us to do (hence I also advocate for things like reducing our healing throughput by a significant amount so all but say the top 25% will not be able to spend more time DPSing instead of healing, it's insane how overly strong our heals are. A regen and oGCD heals is often enough for dungeons, even with wall to wall pulls. Meaning, 99% of GCDs are DPS).

[Reimmi]

tanks and healers will continue to have to do meaningful damage until square redesigns tanks/healers to have to mitigate damage beyond tank busters, or predictable raid damage so healers have to heal more.
so probly never

[Barraind]

Tanks and healers will never be as popular unless they do more damage than DPS, at which point why bring a DPS? People want to see big numbers, and not have the responsibilities associated with tanking and healing.

Ive tanked and/or healed since EQ, and the only time I ever did meaningful damage was against undead, and that was all through gigantic crits every now and then.

Its true in this game though. This game basically takes things that are fun and interesting about both tanking and healing and says "we dont have that in our game".

tanks and healers will continue to have to do meaningful damage until square redesigns tanks/healers to have to mitigate damage beyond tank busters, or predictable raid damage so healers have to heal more. so probly never

This.

[Kalise]

I think the bigger issue is fight design. Its extremely predictable, but I don't think complete randomness is the way forward.

So...

You want less predictable fights...

... That aren't random?

Uhhh...

Alright then.



Less just make things less predictable in... Predictable ways! I'm sure that will make things more fun and interesting and- Oh wait that's the entire problem isn't it?