"Tanks and Healers do too much Damage..."

[Kalise]

Isn't SMN on the higher end of DPS? That said, I don't think percentage matters. If best Tank job (in terms personal+group damage) can do 90% of worst DPS job, that's still good in my opinion.

If I take an average from The Final Omega (Savage) of FFLogs without Echo then this is the distribution of DPS:



Healers at ~3,600 DPS
Tanks at ~5,500 DPS
DPS at ~7,500-8,750 DPS

Which would put Healers at ~41-48% the DPS of Damage jobs.

With Tanks being at ~62-73% the DPS of Damage jobs.

Of course, Tanks and WHM don't have any rDPS boosts. While the jobs they're closest to (Ninja/Dragoon/Bard) have a lot of rDPS boosts.

I'm not sure how FFLogs factors in raid buffs or own DPS (Which will skew Tanks/Healers higher in terms of overall damage output, though they will remain relatively equal to DPS jobs due to rDPS boosts also affecting the DPS)

[linay]

Yeah, that's why I think the actual damage output is already good. But I do see healers saying they're best DPS on dungeons on occasions, so maybe Yoshida is thinking that DPS are not living to their potential comparing to tanks and healers on average dungeon runs, which is really the fault of the individual players, but maybe the devs don't like it. Removing TP might be one way of making it easier for melee to do consistent damage on big pulls.

[Kalise]

Removing TP might be one way of making it easier for melee to do consistent damage on big pulls.

That implies that DPS are aware that they have AoE skills...

Otherwise, that's just buffing WAR/PLD AoE damage xD

[linay]

That implies that DPS are aware that they have AoE skills...

Otherwise, that's just buffing WAR/PLD AoE damage xD

Well, it's enough that I know.

[Aurelius2625]

Fam, if the lower tank dps, there's gonna be a shortage of tanks. Just sayin'. Prepare for 1 hour queues. If a tank is doing "too much dps", maybe you're not doing enough and could increase your skill level, instead of having your hurt feelings be the basis of nerfing tanks and heals.

We about to get all 1790's France up in this snitch, like for real.

[Sanctify]

Or, and hear me out here, DPS players need to get good. Tanks damage potential is way below DPS but is easily attainable, while half the DPS players here are eating glue and wondering why they barely do any more damage than during Heavensward. Just look at fflogs and compare Tanks and DPS in the top clears. That's what DPS should aspire to be instead of just "good enough".

PREACH!! If you're a dps and you're losing out to healers and tanks you're just flat out bad and need to go practice your rotation.

[Vahlnir]

PREACH!! If you're a dps and you're losing out to healers and tanks you're just flat out bad and need to go practice your rotation.

Sometimes, however, one can do too much dps and pull hate from the tanks, even while using the enmity dumps available to you. I've seen good tanks and bad tanks, same goes for dps. I guess those bad tanks have given me some prep for being a tank though once Gunbreaker goes live, since I have been involuntarily made into one at points.

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I don't think that comment was addressing numbers. I think that comment was addressing behaviors. In that there are large numbers of tanks and perhaps a slightly lesser number of healers that prioritize dps output over their actual role. While doling out damage to the best of your ability is pretty much always ace, it should not overshadow your role to the point of expecting others to carry that burdern so you can maximize your personal numbers. This whole 'party is responsible for emnity/mitgation' is just enabling this type of behavior. The party is responsible for working together to the best of their ability to clear the content--whether that also includes meeting each others expectations of what that exactly entails is ultimately up to the participants. Supporting each other, whether its by avoiding unnecessary damage or being aware of your personal enmity or using party buffs or just adjusting to party performance is what we should be doing instead of focusing on just damage. Period. That seems to be how we judge success--not how well we performed our job or helped the party or came through a less than ideal situation but DEM NUMBERS YO.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about that and not how much damage, number-wise anyone is actually doing.

[Kalise]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about that and not how much damage, number-wise anyone is actually doing.

If that were true, we wouldn't have the issue of garbage Fending accessories to reduce damage output (Where they have pathetic amounts of STR on and so you basically just meld every Accessory for full STR)

Also, if that were true... They'd have implemented anything at all to do outside dealing damage.

As the case happens to be, all that there IS to do for Tanks/Healers is DPS and then press 1-2 defensive CD's at preset intervals because of predictable damage spikes.

There's little to no mitigation tied into GCD abilities or frequent oGCD's nor any real damage to speak of between large damage spikes to warrant a Tank focusing on say, reducing incoming damage.

Nor is there much random damage to force Healers to have to utilize GCD healing skills.

Like, it's a meme to call Tanks and Healers in this game "Blue DPS" and "Green DPS" but when push comes to shove... That's literally 99% of the gameplay. Just DPS things. Due to predictable mechanics and otherwise low incoming damage (Thanks to things like OP Shields, HoTs and the fact that a large portion of a Tanks defences comes from their Defence stats meaning they simply passively negate large portions of damage by existing irregardless of what stance they're in)

Even Enmity is trivialized, thanks to every DPS and Healer having a way to mitigate or dump enmity as well as the existence of Shirk to circle-shirk your problems away.

[Tlachtga]

People have been in farm mode for too long. Of course its really easy now. Its week 98365937598.

I see suggestions to nerf damage from supports and they're not taking into account prog, not taking into account gearing process after prog, and definitely not taking into account how nerfs to damage would affect the people who actually play the supports. They definitely don't take into account the clown fiesta circus- i mean, Party Finder pugs after killing the tier.

And the suggestion that healers need to gcd heal more is also flawed. Pressing a different keybind every other gcd doesn't make healing "more interesting", its literally just pressing cure II instead of stone IV. Sitting in tank stance spamming 123 isn't more interesting for the tanks. its boring as hell.

Let's not add tediousness to certain roles just because some players are lazy and SE fight design is extremely predictable.