watch a guide, you are not gonna die

[Alaray]

1) it's a video game, people like to go through these things as new players and experiencing it first hand without the necessity to go to a guide.

2) 24 mans don't require fight knowledge to win. There's maybe 1 important group mechanic per boss, if that, and that's a line to explain. Literally nothing else required.

3) you can win in 24 mans with the vast majority of people dead, because they're a) that easy, and b) there's 0 enrage so dying doesn't even matter with regards to just winning at these fights. You can die 300 times, but if you're pulled up every time, the boss will die.

4) it's a mmo. Talking to other players is part of the genre, asking for help in groups is actually a core component of the point of the genre actually existing. Remove what little socialization that does take place to help people through content, and you may as well turn off the game, stop paying a sub for it, and go play a single player title instead.

[Iscah]

Coming from single-player games where it's normal that you just go into a dungeon or level and "see how you go" based on your own skill, and only turn to external guides if you can't work out what you're supposed to do, the mentality of being expected to seek out all the instructions before you even try it is still very strange to me. It seems the reverse of how games should be played.

It also ruins the experience, if you have to watch a video guide to see everything happen before you actually get to play it.

Dungeon mechanics generally are simple enough that they can be explained in a line or two of text as you go through it - learning from others in your party. That's the way I'd prefer to experience it, and I'm happy to explain things to others for the same reason.

That said, some of the mechanics in this game are quite unintuitive and hard to understand until they are explained to you. But that doesn't mean the explanation is difficult to give.


On the other hand, if it's something that actually is really complex and hard to explain, then it would be useful to say "it's easier to understand if you watch a video first" but not expect that everyone should watch it in every circumstance.

[Hasrat]

I mean, I get OP's argument. "If you're going in blind but you're going to ask what the mechanics are, why not just ask Google ahead of time?"

Personal experience, given the pace of most fights/runs, I can maybe remember the major points for the first boss/phase, but after that, there's not enough retention to perfectly recall later mechanics.

Also, my time is just as valuable. I don't get to be online very much. So I think I'd rather be actively playing instead of afk looking shit up.

[Gemina]

As usual with this topic, I say, "You have to choose your battles." You really have to determine if telling someone to go look at a guide is actually productive. If people are new to the fight, especially if they are a tank or healer, it will probably be in your best interest to let them know about just the mechanics that new players tend to die to.

I agree that if you go into a fight blind, you need to be willing and able to learn on your own, and apply your previous knowledge to the fight. Nobody should have to say, "Stay out of the bad." Guides in all honesty are the most valuable for EX trials and Savage encounters. For normal mode and 24-man, these encounters are a hell of a lot more fun going into them blind. If someone is asking for mechanics, more than likely they are also not looking for a complete rundown of the fight the way guides are done. They just want to know what's going to immediately kill them, or if there is a certain funky mechanic that really screws stuff up for others if they don't do it. It really isn't that hard to let them know what those things are.

However if a player does want a top to bottom rundown of the fight, that is where I would say, "There's guides for that."

[Veis_Alveare]

1) it's a video game, people like to go through these things as new players and experiencing it first hand without the necessity to go to a guide.

2) 24 mans don't require fight knowledge to win. There's maybe 1 important group mechanic per boss, if that, and that's a line to explain. Literally nothing else required.

3) you can win in 24 mans with the vast majority of people dead, because they're a) that easy, and b) there's 0 enrage so dying doesn't even matter with regards to just winning at these fights. You can die 300 times, but if you're pulled up every time, the boss will die.

4) it's a mmo. Talking to other players is part of the genre, asking for help in groups is actually a core component of the point of the genre actually existing. Remove what little socialization that does take place to help people through content, and you may as well turn off the game, stop paying a sub for it, and go play a single player title instead.

1) I don't care what people like.

2) Cid from Orbonne says hi.

3) Cid sends another postcard from the real world to you.

4) Not everyone plays on PC or has a keyboard, typing on ps4 without a keyboard is awful.

[Kleeya]

Most players dont even know there is tons of useful news and patchnotes on the official website of the game (i am sometimes seen as a genius well informed on FF14 just by reading them). Do you really expect everyone to be able to find guides on everything elsewhere, and understand them all when they are in a foreign language they dont speak ?

Some people dont even know these kind of guides exists. Some dont want to see spoilers in them. And some others will not be bright enough to go look at them, not when they are answering "internet explorer" when you ask what kind of computer they have. FF14 is a game, a hobby, where lot of players only want to launch it, play it, close it, and that's it. They dont want to take regularly time to search tons of infos to optimize what they are doing like it was an irl job where you have to take care of your productivity.

Even the bots you have sometimes with you in the game (like Noctis in the FF15 event, or those in the last scholar job quests) are telling you how to handle mechanics. I wonder if they are gonna continue to do that in the incoming trust system, or tell you "go look at a guide !" to make it looks like they are real players XD

[Alaray]

1) I don't care what people like.

2) Cid from Orbonne says hi.

3) Cid sends another postcard from the real world to you.

4) Not everyone plays on PC or has a keyboard, typing on ps4 without a keyboard is awful.

1) That's a nice, healthy position to have in a game oriented with social aspects.

2) Cid has 1 mechanic to worry about, and that is, in fact, stand in the glowy circle. Oh, and I guess drop an AoE to the back and to the left, but I guess that's hard to explain.

3) I'm sorry you seem to struggle with a boss that can be explained in less than two sentences. Finding the link to a guide video to present to a new player would, probably, take more time than deciding to be actually helpful. *I'll iterate: the really Important, Will Kill Other People Stuff can be explained in 2 sentences. Who cares if rando james dies to crush weapon. Not like him dead on the ground will cause a wipe because you can't meet enr- oh there isn't one.

4) Plenty of people do, and just because people might not have access to a keyboard, which won't be an entire raid group... doesn't mean someone needs to watch an Orbonne Monastary guide. Thinking that's a requirement is laughable. You don't even need the entire group to do the mechanic, just six out of eight.

I'm kinda astounded your argument boils down to "it doesn't cater to me so i dont care"


Here, I'll even sum it up for you so you can copy paste it on your special PS4 Keyboard:

When he puts his swords in the arena floor, stay inside of his hit box.
When he holds his swords laterally to his body, go away from him.
When you get a big Red target marker over your head: Go to the left and run away from the AoE.
When he casts "Shadowblade" and you have a marker over your head, one goes back, other goes to the left.
When he hovers a blade over your section of the arena, move away.

Those five sentences took a shorter amount of time for me to type, than it did for me to look up "Shadowblade" to get the name of the ability. And even then, you could probably just say "follow the group" for most of those. Can also change "left" with "right" but most experiences I had was generally back and to the left. But I know it can be done the other way.

(tl;dr: follow the group, red mark run left, black mark take it to the back or to the left, stand in the glowy circle )

[TalosEscher]

There’s this thing called “learning”—some of the players you encounter are new players that aren’t familiar with certain mechanics. If they ask for clarification—or if they ask “anything of note I should watch out for”—that is them trying to learn. Why not help them by telling them what they have to look out for? Is that hard? I suppose so.

Dungeons aren’t Savage where a mistake can easily lead to a snowball into a wipe. If you were discussing Savage, I would be far more sympathetic with your ranting. But you’re discussing dungeons. Easy content or not, why are you trying to discourage people from asking for help?

It’s no wonder so many new players feel hesitant to ask for help when they’re met with players like yourself who want to shirk questions with “Watch a YouTube video”.

learning is fine, coming in blind is fine, even asking for help is completely fine to me, my point when i made this threat was to talk about how people react when i tell them to watch a guide, im not insulting anyone, im not even saying anything slightly rude, but if you say "watch a guide" people freak out

[TalosEscher]

Most players dont even know there is tons of useful news and patchnotes on the official website of the game (i am sometimes seen as a genius well informed on FF14 just by reading them). Do you really expect everyone to be able to find guides on everything elsewhere, and understand them all when they are in a foreign language they dont speak ?

Some people dont even know these kind of guides exists. Some dont want to see spoilers in them. And some others will not be bright enough to go look at them, not when they are answering "internet explorer" when you ask what kind of computer they have. FF14 is a game, a hobby, where lot of players only want to launch it, play it, close it, and that's it. They dont want to take regularly time to search tons of infos to optimize what they are doing like it was an irl job where you have to take care of your productivity.

Even the bots you have sometimes with you in the game (like Noctis in the FF15 event, or those in the last scholar job quests) are telling you how to handle mechanics. I wonder if they are gonna continue to do that in the incoming trust system, or tell you "go look at a guide !" to make it looks like they are real players XD

i know, i can make a very detailed document saying why something isnt ok and no one will listen, but im gonna at least try to stop people from being awful when faced to "watch a guide", everyone seems to think its extremely rude to say that, and its just homework dude, its not degrading

[HyoMinPark]

learning is fine, coming in blind is fine, even asking for help is completely fine to me, my point when i made this threat was to talk about how people react when i tell them to watch a guide, im not insulting anyone, im not even saying anything slightly rude, but if you say "watch a guide" people freak out

It's certainly not a response that will help them - so I can understand why they would find it rude. You're essentially shrugging off their question and refusing to assist them after they asked for it. I know I get particularly frustrated when I ask a question and someone refuses to answer it.