Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Zeonx]

snip

problem is if they give them what they want others who want different races should get what they want not just one crowd.
this is where the problem is honestly.

Ive seen people want-
robots
bird race <-- me included in that
vampires
dwarfs
fairy's
foxes
even more.

you get the picture showing support means nothing, because if others made topics on show support they would grow just as large as this thread and then SE would be at a fork in the road.

just because you made a topic doesn't really mean much I could make a topic about bird race and be like oh show support and the people who want it post people who are against it post and grows 488 pages doesn't mean anything unless SE takes it in consideration if they gave me a female bird or male bird or a counter part like fox girl or guy to the bird i'm not going to argue because they don't have the same counter part.

that's two more races rather than having just 1 with gender changed.

[Anvaire]

problem is if they give them what they want others who want different races should get what they want not just one crowd.
this is where the problem is honestly.

Ive seen people want-
robots
bird race <-- me included in that
vampires
dwarfs
fairy's
foxes
even more.

you get the picture showing support means nothing, because if others made topics on show support they would grow just as large as this thread and then SE would be at a fork in the road.

just because you made a topic doesn't really mean much I could make a topic about bird race and be like oh show support and the people who want it post people who are against it post and grows 488 pages doesn't mean anything unless SE takes it in consideration if they gave me a female bird or male bird or a counter part like fox girl or guy to the bird im not going to argu because they don't have the same counter part.

that's two more races rather than having just 1 with gender changed.

I think thats a bit of a perverse stretch if i'm honest. There are multiple factors around female Hrothgar and male Vera that are beyond the simple threads of "give me x race" the biggest factor is that we have 2 gender locked races and a massive backlash about it. Second Male Viera specifically has been asked for for a number of years. I think it is very different to ask for the missing genders of a race, than complete new races.

The forums by their nature are a way to communicate with the dev team and for the dev team to look at what people want. I think it's highly unlikely that a thread for say a fox like race would gather the same level of support or indeed the detail of responses as this has.

And finally, that Yoshi P has responded to the issue at all shows the level of feedback and dissatisfaction that has already been highlighted. That he specifically said no to Child Like races but gave a middle of the ground, we might add or we might not add answer to M Viera and F Hrothgar speaks volumes on how seriously they take this. At the end of the day, there is nothing wrong with the community asking for things they want to see and SQEX are unlikely to not do something unless it is difficult or resource intrusive, in which case they are likely to try to find something that fits the spirit of the requests. Which i think is where Hrothgar came from.

[Zeonx]

Male Viera are never seen so you never really know what they look like they could be heavy set and short look nothing like fran nobody knows remember the drawings were just test far as I am concerned the only rabbit male i have ever seen Square enix made was the dude from legend of mana.

The Viera live deep within the woods; male and female Viera live separately from each other and only make contact and communication when the need arises

lion women now since its new I could see a girl version being made.

you say it was in high demand I know a lot of people who do not even want it in the game because it breaks FF12's lore and as for threats I believe they mean when they are in dire need, just doesn't make sense to have them walking around freely.

Viera was asked for nobody specified and since 12 Viera was a female that's exactly what they got.

they believe its not good enough well how about this, I want bird race since 1.0 ffxiv before the poll existed should I get what I want since I wanted it for years and should I be upset that Viera was added instead of my bird race? if you said no or yes

then they added my bird race over Male viera why would you still be mad?

which begs the question why are peoples needs and wants over others needs and wants you can't do that. you half to meet people half way and that's what they did.

I see the lion race almost like ronso's people wanted that and they got something just like it and people are happy.

why can't people who got Viera be happy nope throw a tantrum because they wanted the whole package not good enough me me me only me nobody else.

[Senn]

...

Sounds more like you're the one throwing a tantrum here. This thread was made with the intent of requesting male viera. Nothing else - no whining, complaining, or anything else in the OP. If viera and hrothgar isn't your thing, that's fine. If you want a bird race, go make your own thread. You've had years to do so.

[Zeonx]

Sounds more like you're the one throwing a tantrum here. This thread was made with the intent of requesting male viera. Nothing else - no whining, complaining, or anything else in the OP. If viera and hrothgar isn't your thing, that's fine. If you want a bird race, go make your own thread. You've had years to do so.

Oh I am huh? people asked for Viera got Viera but because there wasn't a counter part gender you made 100" of threads and I am sure you were apart of it even people DDOS Square enix because they didn't get it and I am the one throwing a tantrum? lol

as I said I used bird race as a example and interested in it someone brought it up a long time ago, I hope male Viera never comes to light of day.
if you don't believe me here you gohttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...on-hold./page3
should I pull the whole I will unsubscribe thing like you all did if Male Viera is made lol get outa here.

golden.

[Senn]

...

ok but why are you throwing a tantrum though

[SturmChurro]

ok but why are you throwing a tantrum though

The 5 people who want bird race want their race just as much as the people here who want male viera. Male viera is overshadowing THE BIRDS!

[Anvaire]

Male Viera are never seen so you never really know what they look like they could be heavy set and short look nothing like fran nobody knows remember the drawings were just test far as I am concerned the only rabbit male i have ever seen Square enix made was the dude from legend of mana.

The Viera live deep within the woods; male and female Viera live separately from each other and only make contact and communication when the need arises

lion women now since its new I could see a girl version being made.

you say it was in high demand I know a lot of people who do not even want it in the game because it breaks FF12's lore and as for threats I believe they mean when they are in dire need, just doesn't make sense to have them walking around freely.

Viera was asked for nobody specified and since 12 Viera was a female that's exactly what they got.

they believe its not good enough well how about this, I want bird race since 1.0 ffxiv before the poll existed should I get what I want since I wanted it for years and should I be upset that Viera was added instead of my bird race? if you said no or yes

then they added my bird race over Male viera why would you still be mad?

I understand the implications of the lore that is there, but Yoshi P has already said previously, that gameplay comes first then lore is made to match. Yes there is a "lore" reason not to add them, and those that like 12 are entitled to feel that Male Viera shouldn't be added because of this, but this is 14 not 12. The lore doesn't actually provide a reason for the Male Viera to not be added. On a purist front, its illogical to think that ALL male viera would stay in the forest as the wood-wardens, yes they are rare, but they are not a Legend of Zelda, 1 born every 100 years level of rare, and therefore it is plausible within the confines of the Lore to add them.

It is because they have never been seen that makes their appeal much higher. There is a whole different argument to had on the acceptability of gender-locks. But thats not something i want to dip my finger in.

I say Male Viera was in high demand because since the days of beta there have been countless threads asking for them, and in each it was stipulated as "Viera" not simply female and within that was a desire for the Males.

There is a purist notion that adding Male Viera to 14 would Viera themselves because the Males have never been seen. I see people championing the lore that its only females that should be added, this to me feels a bit, perverse, if there is interest in the lore and customs of the race, then adding Male Viera and their accompanying Lore would not detract from anything, instead it would only go on to expand on the race give us the new angle of the Male perspective and therefore understand the Viera as a race better.

I have to say it is true that i'm biased on the front of adding Male Viera, - but I am also a fan of 12, and Ivalice and even back on the PS2 Launch wanted to see what the Male Viera Looked like. I would affirm that my standpoint is something of bewilderment to those that don't want the males added due to the "lore" because the lore doesn't state that they don't exist. Only that they are rare and seldom leave their solitary lifestyle. That doesn't preclude the possibility that they could choose to do that. If the Viera Lore was the same as Legend of Zelda's Gerudo, where only one Male is born every one hundred years or so, then the lore argument against adding them would be more plausible. Alas, this is not the case. That said, i do kind of understand why there is an aversion to the males being added due to the lore. But that "Ivalice Lore" has already been doctored heavily for the raid series - which invalidates the position.

[WhiteArchmage]

snip

And I know a fair amount of people who would be glad to have them in the game, so confirmation bias there. Also, Keeper of the Moon lore.
You can be mad about not having your bird race and make a thread requesting it, get your support instead of putting others down
You also say "nobody specified" and it's demonstrably untrue in the Viera request threads. Ivalice Alliance lore is irrelevant.

That said, i do kind of understand why there is an aversion to the males being added due to the lore. But that "Ivalice Lore" has already been doctored heavily for the raid series - which invalidates the position.

I'm agreeing with you, just checklisting the ways Ivalice Lore was changed for Return to Ivalice:

-Ba'Gamnan and his crew were Rabanastran Fusiliers instead of Bounty Hunters, in RtI they worked directly for Princess Ashe, whom they tried to kill in 12 alongside Balthier.
-Fran is now a general of the Resistance instead of a Sky Pirate, Balthier is nowhere to be seen. Her faction of the Resistance is called Lente's Tear, an item given to the party by Jote in XII so they can traverse Golmore Jungle.
-Orbonne Monastery is now in an island in the middle of Golmore, the Viera guard the place but do not enter. In the Ivalice Alliance games, Orbonne is on an island in the region of Lesalia, and built centuries after the Cataclysm that wiped out every non-hume race.
-Orran married Alma and fathered a child that would carry on the Beoulve bloodline and Durai name, Alma disappeared alongside Ramza's party in Tactics, Delita was not aware of Alma's survival nor (probably) the Durai papers.
-Ashe and Rassler are twins instead of lovers, Ba'Gamnan mentions being there at the time of Ashe's death but Fran's comment about the leader of the resistance hints at her survival (a reference to XII, if true, but unlikely to be developed further).
-Goug being built on top of the Ridoranna Lighthouse, at sky level. In Tactics, Goug is on top of an archeological site, at ground level, away from any Cataracts.
-The mere fact that most of the "Tactics" plotline happens before the "XII" plotline when XII is in the distant past to Tactics.
-The way Auracite is handled in this game in general. Instead of the 12 Zodiac Stones, the RtI Auracite is only sorta referenced as the zodiacs.
-Espers being some sort of souped up Primals created by the auracite instead of God-created beings.
(There are many more I may be forgetting, feel free to remind me)

So it's even more than irrelevant to say Ivalice Lore should be some holy scripture for this game when it already changed so much and the Ivalice games were not retconned at all just because Matsuno, Yoshi-P, and team carved a little Ivalice-shaped niche into Hydaelin.

Snip

How many times must it be said to not knock the message because of a few people? Swear to gods I said as much like 3 pages back.

P.S. The thread was also started right after Hrothgar and the gender-lock reveal, so emotions were high and there was a lack of information about the reasons for said decision. A fair number of people chilled out when the news kept coming and we weren't so in the dark. And the one poster I believe you're quoting on "ignoring the live letter" does get repeatedly reminded that it's not a certain yes, by other Viera supporters.

[Alleo]

problem is if they give them what they want others who want different races should get what they want not just one crowd.
this is where the problem is honestly.

.

There is a big difference between a race existing with only one gender thus giving people the want to see the missing gender, and people just wishing for countless different stuff that does not exist in the game. Look at the bunny suit. If we never had the female version, some might have still wished for it (for both genders) but most probably would not. But give one part of the playerbase something and of course the others want it too.

It is also quite clear that not every wish will ever be fulfilled. But that does not in any way stop anyone from being able to wish for something. Maybe its something that will happen (would we have carbuncle egi glamour without constant asking about it?) or maybe we will never get it, no matter how many people support that. But it also hurts nobody to post about it so I honestly dont understand your post at all.

I'm not talking about the Miqo thing, though - I'm addressing you saying that this game's lore would somehow need to be "twisted" to support a primarily female Viera race. The lore in this game is clear as day in that there will not be male Viera. That same series of quotes cautions people from even looking for them because they'll only find disappointment or death.

You're fine to invoke the whole Miqo lore thing as a way to dismiss arguments centering on lore but you aren't being intellectually honest if you're presenting the idea that the lore of XIV is in any way supportive of your request... really it's quite the opposite.

Twisting lore is what we would need to do to include male Viera, nothing needs to change in their lore to keep them a mystery. I'm down for twisting lore in your favor as well but we should be honest about what that means.

The thing is: Even in the lore they still exit. Its as simple as that. The NPC has himself never seen one because they normally stay in the forest and that you are death before you see one too...but that is one big sign that they exist. If they had wanted to make sure they dont, then they could simply have the NPC state that there is not a single hint of their existance and hints that female Vieras reproduce different. But right now its just: They are there but not seen and kinda rare. Thankfully the WoL is always special and could simply be the only male Viera to ever leave the forest. So no twisting needed at all.