Needs to be asked.....on Male Viera

[Cidel]

You still miss the point though, the onus is on the person releasing information to control information and misinformation which they did not do. The fault for male viera and dancer healer both lie with SE and Yoshida and no one else.

No, I didn't miss the point. You're thinking the blame lies with the devs for not actively making it their responsibility to shut-down any and every speculation that is incorrect when in reality the fault lies with people being incapable of curbing their own expectations and getting carried-away with speculation. That's quite selfish. They're not obligated nor responsible to rein-in speculation just because some people can't handle being incorrect and/or disappointed. Yoshida even mentioned in one interview that if they did do Viera, they'd probably do a different race for the males.

I'm not going to go too far about "Dancer healer" because that's not what we're here about. But I will say that expecting Dancer to be a healer when in fact it's probably had less healing representation than say, Summoner in the series falls into the same mistake of making assumptions based on what people's personal preferences are. It's perfectly valid to be disappointed that the 2nd job for 5.0 isn't a healer (since one is a tank), but to assume Dancer specifically had to be designed for the healing role is personal bias. The "fault" for male Viera lies within its own fanbase propping it up as something that "had to happen" or "they're just saving it for Tokyo Fan fest!" instead of accepting the fact that it could be omitted or any current preexisting lore in XIV is an inconvenient excuse (which again, Yoshida mentions as a way for fans to figure it out themselves before the next fan fest).

Don't confuse misinformation with the lack of it. And if you're going to be upset about lack of information, go apply to the dev team so nothing is a surprise to you and you get to know exactly how everything will turn out. Its either that or people learn how to handle disappointment without shifting the blame.

Yoshida said they need to look into how they release information at fanfests in order to not lead into this issue. It may have been a different interview.

If you ever find out which interview, feel free to share. I've just went through a couple of Tokyo fan fest-related interviews and saw nothing of him saying as much outside of new jobs.

[Selova]

snip.

Except that the community was never fed incorrect or incomplete information. They made a assumption based on hype that was unconfirmed and then got into a uproar that their expectations weren't reality. That's a pretty big difference.

[Alucard135]

Except that the community was never fed incorrect or incomplete information. They made a assumption based on hype that was unconfirmed and then got into a uproar that their expectations weren't reality. That's a pretty big difference.

Don't forget the leaks that were out. Yoshi-P in Mr. Happy's interview asked "Why did people think DNC would be a healer?" to which his reply was good by saying that we got a tank so people assumed the other would be a healer. But we all know that the news about DNC being a healer was all over the place even before Paris fanfest.

[Iscah]

Repeating some deleted-by-mod-cleanout replies (and some new ones), forgive me if you've heard it before....

Elezen range from mature to "delicate" as well. Sure they aren't the typical buff male but they are also not exclusively "delicate". Effeminate? maybe that's the word i want to use instead of delicate.

I personally don't find Ayemeric / Haurchefant / Bradien effeminate. So what exactly did Yoshi P mean when he said they would be like Elezen?

"Delicate" probably is the right word for describing Elezen, or maybe slender for their overall build. "Effeminate" is something I'd connect with behaviour and mannerisms rather than their appearance.

Yoshida did specify what he was meaning in that interview, but I don't have a link to it right now. From memory it was "tall, slender and elegant" like Elezen.

We were getting a lot of mixed signs, and thus we have a bit of a mess. Anyway, now we have a live letter and we just need to wait for the affirmative on a 'yes' or 'no' answer.

We've had mixed signed up to this point, but I think Yoshida's letter is a clear 'no'. Maybe we'll get it in future if they can work around unspecified issues, but for now it's definitely not happening.

I'm not sure what more affirmative response you're expecting, when we've just had a detailed and official explanation of why they can't do it.

If anyone could elaborate on their point of view as to why they are expecting Male Viera to be effeminate because Yoshi P said they would be like Elezen would be highly appreciated.

The impression of feminine male Viera was around long before the interview where Yoshida described them as "like Elezen".

Mostly it stems from people reading the "indistinguishable until age 13" lore description as meaning they're still hard to tell apart afterwards, but I don't see a reason for that to be the case.

Even normal humans clearly develop in different directions after puberty, and there's in-game precedent as well. Male and female Au Ra children have very similar builds.

Also in a fantasy world, how the hell do people get the idea that any of them are LGBT or trans? They're pixels.

That's a very "anti-story" way of looking at things, because by that logic we should never get invested in fictional stories in any way. Characters aren't people, they're just words on a page, or a sequence of drawings, or a script acted out by paid actors.

That's not what the characters are. It's how their story is communicated to us.

Within the story, they are not "pixels". They're living, breathing people, and have all the same possibilities of identity as people in the real world.

Glamour is content...
But Glamour on any male or female character is the same content...

Yes and no. The gear you can choose to put on characters is (mostly) the same, but if you want to pick costumes that look good on your individual character and/or suit their personality, then every new character is new "glamour content".

I currently have four characters and they all dress quite differently.

Yoshida said they need to look into how they release information at fanfests in order to not lead into this issue. It may have been a different interview. You still miss the point though, the onus is on the person releasing information to control information and misinformation which they did not do. The fault for male viera and dancer healer both lie with SE and Yoshida and no one else.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but not that it is solely their responsibility. Even when all the signs were increasingly negative - or at least extremely ambiguous - some people insisted that only the most positive interpretation could be correct.

Even now, Yoshida's letter clearly explaining why they can't do it is being taken as a sign that they're working on it, and just not ready yet.

Yes, they could have seen it coming, and could have moved to stop the misplaced excitement - I was arguing that view myself before the post chain got deleted - but I still don't think it's entirely their fault. I assume they decided it would be negative publicity at the time, and saying "no we can't do this thing you're asking for" is a poor way to sell a game... but they still might want to rethink that approach next time.

[Alucard135]

We've had mixed signed up to this point, but I think Yoshida's letter is a clear 'no'. Maybe we'll get it in future if they can work around unspecified issues, but for now it's definitely not happening.

I'm not sure what more affirmative response you're expecting, when we've just had a detailed and official explanation of why they can't do it.

Seems like they still don't get how Yoshi-P gives his responses. He won't say a hard "no" unless it's something he won't ever reconsider again. Just like the child character issue or removing restriction on job gear for glamour or ingame parsers.

In male Viera's case, it was a definite "no" for now. But he won't say that, since maybe in the future something could allow it to be possible. But until then, it's a "no".

It's not a "we can't do it for now but we'll try in the future" case. He would only say that if he knows that it can be done or when he doesn't want to scratch that idea out without further investigating it. Just like his answer to FFXIV being on the DS.

[Kacho_Nacho]

Those who say they're leaving will be right back when the new expansion drops to keep playing on their cat boys and lalafells.

Quitters don't play lalafell.

[KarmaLad]

Quitters don't play lalafell.

This is 100% true, most "quitters" I've seen are either Roes or Miqos.

[enthauptet]

Yes, they could have seen it coming, and could have moved to stop the misplaced excitement - I was arguing that view myself before the post chain got deleted - but I still don't think it's entirely their fault. I assume they decided it would be negative publicity at the time, and saying "no we can't do this thing you're asking for" is a poor way to sell a game... but they still might want to rethink that approach next time.

Yeah I think Yoshida has gone out of his way to try to get the rational of the decision across and try to assuage people's reactions. Their reasoning is sound, they want to appeal to two new (well one really) markets of players to try to entice, this is just basic business lol. With that being said I still believe that they should be more clear that viera was female only. In his interviews after the EU fanfest he was purposely vague and did not answer when asked about male viera, I guess he was more concerned about confirming leaks.