Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Lauront]

I'm fine with them diverting resources to character customisation and graphics improvements - in fact, I would encourage them to do so as a priority for 6.0. Siphoning resources to other projects or spending it on crap like BLU? Nah.

Also, that sort of logic is myopic, because if the feature increases revenue on net - and they would not make the decision of adding new races if they did not consider it to be a potential net benefit - it essentially creates resources for other things... provided SE actually puts it back into the game. How much other "content" that they add, especially the kind which ends up seeing minimal use, can claim to do this? You can always take the most extreme case of a raid or a dungeon or a zone being sacrificed, when in reality we have funds being spread across things like limited jobs, the abortive mess known as PVP and an abundance of Gold Saucer mini-games most players never touch... never mind copious amounts of gear that aren't even very pleasing, aesthetically.

They will only be able to gauge this once they have some data on fViera and mHrothgar uptake, but if early data indicates it is generating extra revenue, the case for adding the missing genders becomes stronger.

Quite frankly, I also don't care for your claim that it's "whining". We're paying consumers asking for a feature to be added. Don't like it? Fine, whatever, but that does not make it "whining".

[zeylos]

I'd rather they focus on things that wouldn't bite us in the ass later on. Resources are finite. Adding two more character models will only take those resources away from things that could benefit everybody instead of just the few people who would play those genders such as more glamours due to having to cater each and every glamour to more models inflating the amount of work needed from the already overworked dev team, expansion of customization options onto the races/genders we already have in the game who really need an upgrade, etc.
Them adding the other genders isn't just asking to add something else, it is also asking to take away what we would have gotten if they didn't cater to the whining.

First of all, please I'd really appreciate if u could have saved the 'cater to the whining' part since it comes as very disrespectful. Then, I personally think the missing genders add a lot to the games world building and replayabilty, and that doesn't even bring to the table the amount of money they'd make from Fantasia, so in my opinion, it is worth it completely

[Fredco191]

Also, I just wondered how they're gonna do the gender icon for the missing genders. I think it might be something that tells a lot about the issue

"the gender icon"?
Oh! Do you mean on the character creation screen? I assume it'll go like:

Hyur ♂ ♀
Elezen ♂ ♀
Lalafell ♂ ♀
Miqo'te ♂ ♀
Roegadyn ♂ ♀
Au Ra ♂ ♀
Hrothgar ♂
Viera ♀

I guess you could put the Hrothgar and Viera in opposite order but I'm just going with how they are on the Shadowbringers site.

[Selova]

I'd rather they focus on things that wouldn't bite us in the ass later on. Resources are finite. Adding two more character models will only take those resources

People seriously need to realize that the team that works on character design is not the same team that works on all content in the game. They aren't sacrificing resources in one area and putting them into another. They have teams dedicated to each aspect if the game. You aren't "losing a raid tier" because of viera and hrothgar.

[Shiro--Tsubasa]

I'm fine with them diverting resources to character customisation and graphics improvements. Siphoning it to other projects or spending it on crap like BLU? Nah.

Also, that sort of logic is myopic, because if the feature increases revenue on net - and they would not make the decision of adding new races if they did not consider it to be a potential net benefit - it essentially creates resources for other things... provided SE actually puts it back into the game. How much other "content" that they add, especially the kind which ends up seeing minimal use, can claim to do this?

Quite frankly, I also don't care for your claim that it's "whining". We're paying consumers asking for a feature to be added. Don't like it? Fine, whatever, but that does not make it "whining".

They did add the races that would produce the best increase, what is being asked would be minimal increase at best as most of those complaining won't likely touch either of the unreleased genders should they ever come out. If anything there could be a loss as the sacrifice in content lost would cause harm counterbalancing any good adding the two genders would bring. Just look at the ones added in 2.0. There were large amount of people complaining, but most of those complainers didn't swap to those added genders. You can see this by the race/gender populations. Just like every announcement there will be trolls who love to bash something, anything, it just so happens that this time it is genderlocks.
As for being fine with redirecting resources to things you want, duh of course you would want that. What you are ignoring is what EVERYBODY ELSE has to give up for you to get what you want.
I do consider it whining the moment people start slandering the devs making claims they are "lazy", "sexist", and "homophobic" which is down right rude and disrespectful. (I'm saying this as somebody who is LGBT myself) Yoshi and the devs have been very supportive of our community even expressing how happy he is for the Pride community events people hold in game. People are using this because they are crying over not getting the toy they wanted, and want to do anything they can to vilify the ones who didn't make the toy to their specific demands. It becomes nothing more than a temper tantrum.

[Sathona]

Lol xD UwU.

[zeylos]

They did add the races that would produce the best increase, what is being asked would be minimal increase at best as most of those complaining won't likely touch either of the unreleased genders should they ever come out. If anything there could be a loss as the sacrifice in content lost would cause harm counterbalancing any good adding the two genders would bring. Just look at the ones added in 2.0. There were large amount of people complaining, but most of those complainers didn't swap to those added genders. You can see this by the race/gender populations. Just like every announcement there will be trolls who love to bash something, anything, it just so happens that this time it is genderlocks.
As for being fine with redirecting resources to things you want, duh of course you would want that. What you are ignoring is what EVERYBODY ELSE has to give up for you to get what you want.
I do consider it whining the moment people start slandering the devs making claims they are "lazy", "sexist", and "homophobic" which is down right rude and disrespectful. (I'm saying this as somebody who is LGBT myself) Yoshi and the devs have been very supportive of our community even expressing how happy he is for the Pride community events people hold in game. People are using this because they are crying over not getting the toy they wanted, and want to do anything they can to vilify the ones who didn't make the toy to their specific demands. It becomes nothing more than a temper tantrum.

So many people complaining but almost no one switching? Miqote male player number says hi

[Lauront]

They did add the races that would produce the best increase,

Even they admit that they don't know that will be the case with Hrothgar. That statement might apply to the genders they picked for each race... given the decision to already add two races, but if we're going off Roe uptake (the lowest of any male), there's evidence to the contrary that such a pick would be the one to enjoy broader uptake. They're probably aiming to bag some of those WoW refugees, but like I've said before, at most 15% or so play a male of a race fitting the attributes of Hrothgar, and of those, you're further limiting it to those people whose only real impediment to picking up FFXIV so far is the lack of a race they want to play. Again, even the devs are not blind to this being a gamble. It really is a case of an uncertain payoff, so we'll have to wait till 5.1 to see how it fared.

what is being asked would be minimal increase at best

That's based on the rather tenuous assertion that the only people who would play them are those clamouring for them. Essentially, little more than a hunch. How did that line of reasoning stack up for catmen, out of curiosity, the most played male demographic in the game?

As for being fine with redirecting resources to things you want, duh of course you would want that. What you are ignoring is what EVERYBODY ELSE has to give up for you to get what you want.

You don't really know which content they would need to sacrifice, if any, because that is not readily available information. The only example they've given of content they would sacrifice was in terms of the high res asset model conversion and that was stated in terms of reducing their gear output. There may be no sacrifices at all, for example, if SE allowed the game to retain more of the revenue it generated, and certainly in terms of manhours, there are many ways of increasing that without putting further work on the existing teams, which businesses as large as SE are well well acquainted with, including hiring contingent resource...

However, let's say it did. Why assume it's content "EVERYBODY ELSE" wants?

The reason I agreed on the topic of character customisation and added graphics upgrades to this is because I believe they will eventually have to do it if they want to maintain current or even higher sub levels. The game is beginning to look dated and their toolset is constraining them in terms of how easily they can add new content, so it has the potential to be a highly value-additive upgrade, not to mention how much demand there is for this both from the playerbase and even their own staff. It will certainly impact whether I play the game longer term, but there's a lot of complexities that go into it regarding resource cost, timing and implications for system requirements... still, all that doesn't really change what I want out of the game as an end consumer in order to keep playing it.

I do consider it whining the moment people start slandering the devs making claims they are "lazy", "sexist", and "homophobic" which is down right rude and disrespectful. (I'm saying this as somebody who is LGBT myself) Yoshi and the devs have been very supportive of our community even expressing how happy he is for the Pride community events people hold in game. People are using this because they are crying over not getting the toy they wanted, and want to do anything they can to vilify the ones who didn't make the toy to their specific demands. It becomes nothing more than a temper tantrum.

There's next to none of that going on here, so it's rather irrelevant to this thread. In fact, we've made a deliberate attempt to discourage such comments.

People seriously need to realize that the team that works on character design is not the same team that works on all content in the game. They aren't sacrificing resources in one area and putting them into another. They have teams dedicated to each aspect if the game. You aren't "losing a raid tier" because of viera and hrothgar.

Idk if they're maybe thinking in terms of "well, the teams cost money allocated out of a fixed budget, as there's salaries to pay, and those teams dedicated to character design would need to grow, leaving less money to focus on other areas", etc., but either way it's not a given that there would have to be sacrifices in content. That would be down to how SE chooses to manage it.

Just to clarify though, I would not expect them to add the feature if they had solid reasons to think it would not pay for itself. However, at present, we just have guesses from some posters that it wouldn't, which amount to little more than speculation.

[zeylos]

"the gender icon"?
Oh! Do you mean on the character creation screen? I assume it'll go like:

Hyur ♂ ♀
Elezen ♂ ♀
Lalafell ♂ ♀
Miqo'te ♂ ♀
Roegadyn ♂ ♀
Au Ra ♂ ♀
Hrothgar ♂
Viera ♀

I guess you could put the Hrothgar and Viera in opposite order but I'm just going with how they are on the Shadowbringers site.

I think that MAYBE they could like blurr out the male viera and female hrotgar gender icons and maybe make it so when you scroll it says something like 'coming soon' or maybe even 'not playable currently'. I know it's unlikely, but I think it could be a great way for SE to announce the new genders and make sure EVERYONE knows they are coming. I think we will most likely have the missing genders either blured out or they would be like the other races but the missing gender icon will just not be there

[Tlachtga]

People seriously need to realize that the team that works on character design is not the same team that works on all content in the game. They aren't sacrificing resources in one area and putting them into another. They have teams dedicated to each aspect if the game. You aren't "losing a raid tier" because of viera and hrothgar.

We wouldn't lose a raid tier, but the time between raid tiers would increase.

The message from Yoshi-p in his recent letter from the producer was clear; as it is now, if male viera and female hrothgar are to be a thing, it would mean the 3.5 month patch cycle becomes impossible.

I don't care what my characters look like too much, so the idea of patches being delayed or taking longer to drop just to add gender options for races I don't care about....I wouldn't be okay with that.