Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Hash_Browns]

Sorry but the dude could just use flash. Healer could be being a jerk or perhaps there regens left over from previous pull, the post does not specify. But you know who suffers in this bc the tank could not grit their teeth and push one maybe two buttons? The dps who do not have instant ques like the tank or the healer in this story. I'm an noob tank and even I can successfully pull with regens on. If a bis pld can't handle regens or be bothered to click them off, then I can't be bothered to feel sorry for them. Bc in the end the dps got the shaft.

Couldn't the "Lul just use flash once bro" argument be used for DPS who don't use their mitigation tools as well?
Not to say the tank was right in this situation. Sounds like the OP put on regen on during a pull of trash packs, as in the tank got regen while he was still pulling more mobs.

I'm a healer main, and I have someone else in my group that's a tank main & right now we are swapping roles. Both of us are still learning. It is annoying as all hell when you have the regen go off during a pull because you are trying to get from point A to point B, only to have to go back and collect enemies that should be on you already because you pulled them. It's not the end of the world, but throwing regen on a tank while he's getting to point B and then giving him the finger when he asks you to stop is asking for trouble. Personally would have just kicked the person after the "lul" comment instead of making everyone else tank, but that's just me.

[ArianeEwah]

Garbage behavior? Not cowing to the will of a tank, you mean?

Who cares if the tank requested it? He's going to still get enmity with one Flash either way, regens don't generate that much and nothing in Expert even hits hard enough that the healer taking a few auto attacks is the end of the world.

That tank was 100% wrong in everything he did, there is no excuse.

Cowing to the will of a tank? It's common sense to NOT put up regen mid-pull, so their request was justified! Doing it nevertheless and just go 'lul, suck it' IS garbage behaviour, no matter how the tank reacted to it.

Despite what you (and other here) said - it's not just 1 or 2 more buttons! If the tank is using sprint and pulling like crazy, your healer putting up a regen and immediately getting aggro, and THEN decides to run away from tank... with more than 10 targets in your enemy list, the tank will most likely not be able to target them or even reach with Shield Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend... and 'expert' =/= 'everyone knows how to play optimal', so everything is possible.

Was the tank's request justified? Yes, it was. Was their reaction appropriate? No, that's out of question. Still could've been avoided from the get-go.

Sorry but the dude could just use flash. Healer could be being a jerk or perhaps there regens left over from previous pull, the post does not specify. But you know who suffers in this bc the tank could not grit their teeth and push one maybe two buttons? The dps who do not have instant ques like the tank or the healer in this story. I'm an noob tank and even I can successfully pull with regens on. If a bis pld can't handle regens or be bothered to click them off, then I can't be bothered to feel sorry for them. Bc in the end the dps got the shaft.

Just because they were in BiS gear, doesn't mean they can handle that easily or be even used to it. BiS is just telling me 'this tank wouldn't need a regen during pull, even without tank stance or CDs' 'cause the gear's defense alone is enough for that.

BiS also doesn't mean they can play their job optimal, maybe they got carried by their party and had a lucky drop. I've seen 'Ultimate' tanks with accessories melded with DH instead of STR, so don't expect ANYthing from ANYone just because they are BiS!

[DumdogsWorld]

Snip!

Before I say anything, note that I have neither experience with tanking nor healing (which is one of the reasons why I tend to give tanks and healers the benefit of the doubt quite a bit).

When it comes to DPSs using abilities to reduce their enmity, I would say that a variety of factors govern whether or not they should be used. How quickly are the mobs dying? How much damage is the DPS doing? How good is the tank at managing their resources? Etc. These questions need to be asked by all in the party. Not just the DPSs.

Sometimes using an ability to pull something off is actually a Band-Aid being slapped on a deeper problem. As a DRG who absolutely spams doom spike on any mob with more than 2 enemies, I learned to wait a moment (not very long, a fraction of a second will do) after the tank pulls before I start using AOEs. Otherwise, I sometimes take aggro. I could likely pull the same thing off using diversion (or maybe not), but then I would be putting diversion on cooldown and overall be reducing the efficiency of the run.

[Hash_Browns]

Before I say anything, note that I have neither experience with tanking nor healing (which is one of the reasons why I tend to give tanks and healers the benefit of the doubt quite a bit).

When it comes to DPSs using abilities to reduce their enmity, I would say that a variety of factors govern whether or not they should be used. How quickly are the mobs dying? How much damage is the DPS doing? How good is the tank at managing their resources? Etc. These questions need to be asked by all in the party. Not just the DPSs.

Sometimes using an ability to pull something off is actually a Band-Aid being slapped on a deeper problem. As a DRG who absolutely spams doom spike on any mob with more than 2 enemies, I learned to wait a moment (not very long, a fraction of a second will do) after the tank pulls before I start using AOEs. I could likely pull the same thing off using diversion (or maybe not), but then I would be putting diversion on cooldown and overall be reducing the efficiency of the run.

As a DPS, if you have diversion - it should usually be your opener.

I understand a lot of factors come into play with it, but during late game content, for example - a WAR isn't going to be spamming his hate combo, and probably only use it once or twice as well as barely be in tank stance. Obviously with big trash pulls, the warrior will be using overpower though, as well as Equilibrium to get that instant hate.

Same goes for Paladin, they usually only flash a few times before DPSing.

[DumdogsWorld]

Snip!

...The recast time for diversion is 120 seconds, but it lasts for 30. That's 90 seconds of not using the ability, nor being affected by it. I'm not disagreeing that it's useful, but a party must also be able to function correctly without it.

[Veis_Alveare]

Cowing to the will of a tank? It's common sense to NOT put up regen mid-pull, so their request was justified! Doing it nevertheless and just go 'lul, suck it' IS garbage behaviour, no matter how the tank reacted to it.

Despite what you (and other here) said - it's not just 1 or 2 more buttons! If the tank is using sprint and pulling like crazy, your healer putting up a regen and immediately getting aggro, and THEN decides to run away from tank... with more than 10 targets in your enemy list, the tank will most likely not be able to target them or even reach with Shield Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend... and 'expert' =/= 'everyone knows how to play optimal', so everything is possible.

Was the tank's request justified? Yes, it was. Was their reaction appropriate? No, that's out of question. Still could've been avoided from the get-go.



Just because they were in BiS gear, doesn't mean they can handle that easily or be even used to it. BiS is just telling me 'this tank wouldn't need a regen during pull, even without tank stance or CDs' 'cause the gear's defense alone is enough for that.

BiS also doesn't mean they can play their job optimal, maybe they got carried by their party and had a lucky drop. I've seen 'Ultimate' tanks with accessories melded with DH instead of STR, so don't expect ANYthing from ANYone just because they are BiS!

A Regen doesn't cause enough enmity to pull off of a single flash even in Sword Oath. If the tank is the least bit competent this it's literally not an issue.

You can ask people to do things in DF all day but they aren't obligated to, especially when it's a completely unnecessary request. There is nothing here about the healer running away from the tank like an idiot so I'm not sure why you bring that up.

You're defending a bad tank playing badly and being demanding of his party.

As to the tank maybe not knowing how to handle himself despite bis - if you've completed o12s there is no way you're enough of an idiot to have trouble gaining and holding threat during a pull with a Regen on. He might not be a world first raider but he knows what skills he has to gain enmity and has an idea of how those basic things work.

[Hash_Browns]

...The recast time for diversion is 120 seconds, but it lasts for 30. That's 90 seconds of not using the ability, nor being affected by it. I'm not disagreeing that it's useful, but a party must also be able to function correctly without it.

Oh, of course - it's just a good tool to have & use. I usually pull wall to wall, so by the time the trash pack is dead, we are preping for a boss anyways unless some kind of roadblock happens.

I'm of course coming from the experience of wall-to-wall pulls & bosses.

A Regen doesn't cause enough enmity to pull off of a single flash even in Sword Oath. If the tank is the least bit competent this it's literally not an issue.

You can ask people to do things in DF all day but they aren't obligated to, especially when it's a completely unnecessary request. There is nothing here about the healer running away from the tank like an idiot so I'm not sure why you bring that up.

You're defending a bad tank playing badly and being demanding of his party.

As to the tank maybe not knowing how to handle himself despite bis - if you've completed o12s there is no way you're enough of an idiot to have trouble gaining and holding threat during a pull with a Regen on. He might not be a world first raider but he knows what skills he has to gain enmity and has an idea of how those basic things work.

Once again, while I don't agree with the tanks actions, healers shouldn't be putting regens on tanks who are still drawing in mobs. If a mob aggros to the tank, and the regen goes off, the tank then has to stop what they are doing so they can chase an enemy who is now bolting to the healer.

Regening a tank mid pull is bad healing & you are making the tank work harder for your mess up.

[Anselmet]

BiS also doesn't mean they can play their job optimal, maybe they got carried by their party and had a lucky drop. I've seen 'Ultimate' tanks with accessories melded with DH instead of STR, so don't expect ANYthing from ANYone just because they are BiS!

Ya no, if they are bis then that means they have several pieces on from omega savage. Even if they got 'carried' they know enough about their class to handle wimpy regen ticks. You're just making excuses to justify the tank not using flash. I often forget to click off regens and sometimes lose hate, I have dumb healers who put regens on mid pull, it literally takes little effort to get agro back. He's not dealing with a blm who went super saiyan and is refusing to use diversion. Its a regen. Use ultimatum and flash. Problem fixed.

[SturmChurro]

Ya no, if they are bis then that means they have several pieces on from omega savage. Even if they got 'carried' they know enough about their class to handle wimpy regen ticks. You're just making excuses to justify the tank not using flash. I often forget to click off regens and sometimes lose hate, I have dumb healers who put regens on mid pull, it literally takes little effort to get agro back. He's not dealing with a blm who went super saiyan and is refusing to use diversion. Its a regen. Use ultimatum and flash. Problem fixed.

Healers do that so often in roullete that it's pretty much routine that you are gonna have to chase down adds. Tank was just throwing a fit.

Like it happens so often it's not even worth saying anything about it.

[Anselmet]

Healers do that so often in roullete that it's pretty much routine that you are gonna have to chase down adds. Tank was just throwing a fit.

Like it happens so often it's not even worth saying anything about it.

Soooooo true. That really is all that it boils down to. I don't even bat an eyelash at this point bc its so quick to get agro back.